OpenCarry.org Lying about TSRA, Again . . .

[CompVest]

Thank you, Charles.

[AEA]

Good call Charles......

[Keith B]

Thank you sir!

[The Annoyed Man]

[RANT]
Lord, I hate the term "sheeple." It is the most dismissive, most contemptuous, and the most unreasoned term in political discourse today. It is the conservative's equivalent of when a liberal calls anyone with whom they disagree a "nazi." It's just dumb because it is self-defeating. Anyone who thinks they can bring another person around to their way of thinking by insulting their thought processes and impugning their manhood probably didn't do well in debate class. If we are in the right, then we are supposed to be able to bring people around to our way of thinking by means of the power of our ideas - not by contemptuous dismissal and showing them such profound disrespect. To me, "sheeple" is the political equivalent of "the 'N' word" and it has no place in reasoned discourse. When we use it, it is because we have run out of belief in the superiority of our ideas.
[/RANT]

I apologize if the above detracts from this thread. Some things just push my buttons, and that word is one of them.

Hand picked or not, the statement stands alone. BTW, my comments were meant to be offensive and a personal attack. His comment should be offensive to all who want gun rights restored. It was a personal statement so who was I suppose to attack? If he wants to wait for an approval from the higher ups in the NRA and TSRA, then he is definitely a sheeple. There I said it again. Sheeple is merely a term for someone that can't or won't think on their own and must follow the direction of someone else. GET OVER IT!!!! If Charles is of the mindset that he must wait for approval to discuss something then he is a sheeple. GET OVER IT AGAIN!!!!

Dennis

WOW. Just, Wow. I would hate to be wound that tight. Charles, thanks for being so forthright and calm. It's quite a contrast, and an object lesson in how we should be comporting ourselves.

[MBGuy]

Thanks Charles for behaving in a way that makes us proud to be here. I was one of many that was looking forward to at least having the possibility of OC'ing in Texas like I do in Louisiana and Kentucky, but thanks to their lack of tact, class, and humility, they ruined it for the rest of us. It seems to be their style over there and it gives the rest of us OC'ers a bad image.

[Skiprr]

Truly bizarre behavior. Not sure I really comprehend it, so I have nothing to say.

I found it interesting that "rodbender" lists texasguntalk.com in his signature, so I checked his profile there. No posts since January 30, and then the prophetic tag: "rodbender has not made any friends yet."

[Charles L. Cotton]

Truly bizarre behavior. Not sure I really comprehend it, so I have nothing to say.

I found it interesting that "rodbender" lists texasguntalk.com in his signature, so I checked his profile there. No posts since January 30, and then the prophetic tag: "rodbender has not made any friends yet."

I love your avatar!

Chas.

[jimlongley]

Truly bizarre behavior. Not sure I really comprehend it, so I have nothing to say.

I found it interesting that "rodbender" lists texasguntalk.com in his signature, so I checked his profile there. No posts since January 30, and then the prophetic tag: "rodbender has not made any friends yet."

Rockin' avatar Skiprr.

My personal opinion is that rod needs an outlet other than ours.

[rodbender]

I was given until 3:00 PM to apologize. Well, I just got home from Beaumont. I will apologize for the profanity. The rest will have to stand. I did not brag about being banned. I thought I was because I tried to go back and was not even allowed to read the forum. I know you are in with the crowd at TSRA and NRA, I was questioning how deep. Why don't you bring it up to the board? I know I've read on here before that you are against open carry. If you are against it, then why would you support it if the TSRA and NRA support it. Voice your opinion, for heaven's sake. If you are against it, stand on your own two feet and be against it even if they are backing it.

You guys here are all so honest. Think about this. If they won't even discuss it in a board meeting, how can they say that they are not against it? Alice Tripp has certainly let her feelings about it be known, and they are not friendly ones.

I have been on OCDO for a good while, and not once have I read a post that threatened any member of the Texas legislature. I really don't know why you and others keep repeating this. Give me a link to a thread with these threats. There have been some subtle mentions in a general sense, but they were mostly unanswered and it was dropped quickly.

I want everyone to know that the reason that Debbie Riddle decided not to introduce her open carry bill was because it was torpedoed, admittedly so, by Mike Guzman of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. Somehow I think Charles already knows this (or should) and somehow forgot to mention it. Personally, IMHO, I think someone (not Charles) at TSRA probably had something to do with it as well, but I don't have the proof, so I won't mention names.

[RedRaider]

I was given until 3:00 PM to apologize. Well, I just got home from Beaumont. I will apologize for the profanity. The rest will have to stand. I did not brag about being banned. I thought I was because I tried to go back and was not even allowed to read the forum. I know you are in with the crowd at TSRA and NRA, I was questioning how deep. Why don't you bring it up to the board? I know I've read on here before that you are against open carry. If you are against it, then why would you support it if the TSRA and NRA support it. Voice your opinion, for heaven's sake. If you are against it, stand on your own two feet and be against it even if they are backing it.

You guys here are all so honest. Think about this. If they won't even discuss it in a board meeting, how can they say that they are not against it? Alice Tripp has certainly let her feelings about it be known, and they are not friendly ones.

I have been on OCDO for a good while, and not once have I read a post that threatened any member of the Texas legislature. I really don't know why you and others keep repeating this. Give me a link to a thread with these threats. There have been some subtle mentions in a general sense, but they were mostly unanswered and it was dropped quickly.

I want everyone to know that the reason that Debbie Riddle decided not to introduce her open carry bill was because it was torpedoed, admittedly so, by Mike Guzman of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. Somehow I think Charles already knows this (or should) and somehow forgot to mention it. Personally, IMHO, I think someone (not Charles) at TSRA probably had something to do with it as well, but I don't have the proof, so I won't mention names.

I'm guessing, like the story of Hansel and Grettel, the birds apparently ate your trail of crumbs..............................
























I'll help you find your way home................... http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW, from someone who really was on the fence about open carry to begin with, I'll say that the actions of you and your members have helped make up my mind.

[MBGuy]

I for one appreciate that Rodbender has come back and apoligized for the profanity.........nice. Yes, he insulted Mr. Cotton, but he apoligized and I'll go out on a limb and remind everyone that at least he's on the 2A side of things and we need to stick together.

Rodbender, I believe there was some rather strong words against Senator Wentworth that was very unproductive, but I'm not positive, it's been a while. Of course, I didn't agree with his Wild West analogy either though as that's a cliche tune sung by the other side.

If Mr. Guzman did in fact "torpedo" the OC bill that Debbie Riddle seemed to be ready to carry, that's very disappointing. But things take time, especially this issue in this age of leftist media and entertainment. I remind you that Mr. Guzman started his campaign pretty much right after the Va. Tech tragedy, while OC was on the radar for only the last 9 months maybe? I'm not sure on that one so I'd take it with a grain of salt. I think issues need to be in TSRA's game plan for a good while beforehand to be put forth, and this issue came in when basically the game was already well under way.

I personally liked the billboards and taxi campaign and contributed to that move. I would love, as many (not most) here would, the option to OC. I don't think the audience in here is overwhelmingly against others excercising that option like you think. I believe Mr. Cotton has said that if the membership of the TSRA hit critical mass in favoring it, he'd work towards that as it is his job to do just that. He personally might not OC himself, but that's not relevant in his duties in the TSRA. I hope I'm right.

I personally believe that it doesn't matter who achieves this, just that it's achieved. I've said it before, and I'll say it again........TSRA is a mechanism that is already an established politically credible organization in Austin, has the means and know-how to work with the House and Senate, and all those that favor OC that aren't already TSRA members need to join and be heard (tactfully) by Ms. Tripp and Mr. Cotton that OC is next. One caveat though is that even the CHL took a while, and even today we're still taking baby steps to get it fully the way it should be (campus carry being one compromise at the time that will hopefully be rectified now).

Once again, let's remember that this issue, though not one that all here would excercise, is still a pro-2A issue.

[rodbender]

If Mr. Guzman did in fact "torpedo" the OC bill that Debbie Riddle seemed to be ready to carry, that's very disappointing.

Here is a link to the thread where someone received an email from Guzman stating just that.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum51/24203.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I understand that things take time. I also did not expect open carry to be passed this session. I did want it to at least get filed and had a glimmer of hope for it to reach discussion on the floor, however slim those chances were. I never would have done such a thing and can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would be confused by the two. Maybe it shows us what our legislators are made of. I think he did it to get more media attention for himself and his cause and used the confusion excuse as a cover. He obviously will be running for office at some point in the future. He definitely has the character for it, or rather, the lack of it. Guzman's actions are almost unforgivable.

[tfrazier]

I'm not happy that Texas is one of six states with zero tolerance for open handgun carry.

But I'm even more unhappy that the debate over it is creating so much division among folks who should all be united in support of our second amendment rights.

We're all getting bent out of shape over how our resources are used and what immediate goals are being pursued.

I'm an OCDO forum member, a NRA member, and soon to be TSRA member. Id like to continue in all three, but it's starting to look like I may need to drop one.

I dislike the fact that I have to get permission from the state of Texas via CHL, but it's better than nothing. I can see the sense in not getting too pushy with open carry right now, and I also see the problem with a national organization trying to push open carry in Texas.

The NRA and TSRA have accomplished a great deal in Texas in the last few years: CHL, castle doctrine and "vehicle carry" being some of the victories I thought would never happen. Now with the parking lot bills and campus carry on the agenda they stand to make additional progress. Opencarry.org hasn't accomplished much here other than to distract us from immediate, tangible wins; and create a bit of a bad rap among some of the public with it's calls for long gun demonstrations, IMO.

Others can claim it's arrogance or a false perception, but Texas was once a free republic on her own, and many of us will always have a great sense of pride in that; I don't like folks from the federal government or even citizens from other states meddling in our affairs.

We take our heritage seriously, and IMO we won't get anywhere with open carry here as long as we rely on a national movement to push our state legislature that way.

Open Carry needs a sensible, Texas based approach to to work with our legislators and the public. Right now there isn't the slightest foundation here for it to start building upon, and trying to get 'er done as a tentacle of OpenCarry.Org is just going to get a bunch of folks here sharpening their hatchets to cut cut it off.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I was given until 3:00 PM to apologize. Well, I just got home from Beaumont. I will apologize for the profanity. The rest will have to stand.

The personal attacks in blatant violation of forum rules stand? Okay, be forewarned; one more against any member and you're gone and every one of your posts that violate forum rules will be deleted. What arrogance; I guess you feel the rules apply to everyone but you.

I did not brag about being banned. I thought I was because I tried to go back and was not even allowed to read the forum.

Even non-members (including banned members) can read all forums except the Moderator Forum and one other restricted forum. You probably tried to hit the link to your post, but that was moved to the Moderator Forum. You would have seen a log in page and it wouldn't let you log in as a Moderator. You were never banned.

You guys here are all so honest. Think about this. If they won't even discuss it in a board meeting, how can they say that they are not against it?

It hasn't been discussed because our members haven't asked that we take on the issue. When I say members, I mean a very significant percentage, not a few in-your-face OpenCarry.org people. That's the way it should be. Members carry the financial load.

I have been on OCDO for a good while, and not once have I read a post that threatened any member of the Texas legislature. I really don't know why you and others keep repeating this. Give me a link to a thread with these threats. There have been some subtle mentions in a general sense, but they were mostly unanswered and it was dropped quickly.

Calls for defeat of pro-gun Senators and Representatives during the next election are not "subtle mentions." If you really haven't seen any of those posts, then you haven't looked. I have cited OCDO posts on that subject; use the search feature and find them if you wish.

I want everyone to know that the reason that Debbie Riddle decided not to introduce her open carry bill was because it was torpedoed, admittedly so, by Mike Guzman of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. Somehow I think Charles already knows this (or should) and somehow forgot to mention it. Personally, IMHO, I think someone (not Charles) at TSRA probably had something to do with it as well, but I don't have the proof, so I won't mention names.

This is absolute garbage; vintage OCDO lies. Here are the facts:

• 1. Mike Guzman did not and could not talk Debbie Riddle out of filing an open-carry bill.
  2. Rep. Riddle never agreed to file an open-carry bill, she only agreed to "pull a draft," not file a bill. If OCDO knew anything about Texas legislative procedures, they would have known this and would not have lied to their own troops and claimed Riddle was going to file a bill.
  3. Mike Guzman may have talked to her, I have no way of knowing, but I do know he doesn't have the clout to get her not to file a bill that she wants to file.
  4. OCDO made complete jerks of themselves in calls, emails and faxes to Rep. Riddle's staff; so much so that she wished she had never heard of open-carry. There is every reason to believe that feeling is shared throughout he Capitol. I just hope that sentiment is directed solely at OCDO and not the entire open-carry issue.
  5. No one within TSRA or NRA did anything to thwart open-carry; it was dead on arrival because OCDO didn't do their homework and approach the issue in a manner that had even a remote chance of being successful. Add the in-your-face tactics used by OCDO and the final nails were driven into the open-carry coffin. But this is the tactic you like, so stick with it.
  6. OCDO has a pattern of lying or, at best, being deceptive about open-carry supporters and opposition. Just by way of example: the article made the basis of this thread. It was a blatant lie in that the OP took Howard's article about conversations with TSRA members and implied/stated that those individual opinions were expressed by TSRA Board Members in the Annual Meeting. The motive for that lie is clear; to discredit TSRA and further OCDO's reputation in the eyes of open-carry supporters. Another example is Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson's article posted on OCDO. There were two articles posted on the Internet. One of the articles was edited to make it appear that Jerry supported unlicensed open-carry, while the other unedited article made it clear that he supports licensed open-carry. It is possible Mike Stollenwerk didn't read both articles thinking they were the same. However, when I posting something here noting the creative editing (not by OCDO), someone posted that information on OCDO. Was the title/subtitle of the thread changed to acknowledge the truth? Not on your life. Why? Because Mike wanted it to appear that Commissioner Patterson supports OCDO's goal of unlicensed open-carry.

Discuss issues as much as you like, but keep the insults, rule violations and false allegations to yourself. You're unwillingness to apologize for making personal attacks in violation of our rules has you on very thin ice. In fact, the Moderators are discussing whether you should be allowed to remain since to admitted you intended to make a personal attack and you have refused to accept responsibility and apologize.

Chas.