Supremes 5/4 on no-knock warrants, Alito breaks tie.

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

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Glockamolie
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#16

Post by Glockamolie »

Diode wrote:... Sometimes I start to wonder if the Founding Fathers weren't thinking of this very type of Issues when they wrote in the 2nd Amendment?
Nope, I'm pretty sure they were thinking of this when they wrote the 4th Amendment. :lol:

I'm with seamusTX - you can't flush a meth lab or a bale of pot down the toilet. A few crack rocks? Yeah, sure. But if they were anything other than just a low-end dealer, they'd have more than that, and other things too.

How about being "tactical" ;-) and arresting the guy(s) when they leave, and then execute the search warrant on their house?
- Brandon

lrb111
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#17

Post by lrb111 »

Glockamolie wrote:
How about being "tactical" ;-) and arresting the guy(s) when they leave, and then execute the search warrant on their house?
How about plugging the sewer line like the city does when they don't pay their water/sewer/trash bill?
Ø resist

Take away the second first, and the first is gone in a second.

NRA Life Member, TSRA, chl instructor

kw5kw
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#18

Post by kw5kw »

I think that we're just way to paranoid over this issue.

Look,
We are law-abiding citizens OR we would not have our CHL's in the first place. We're law-abiding citizens or we would not have even applied for our CHL's in the second place.

What do we have to worry about? Are you doing something wrong that you should be worried about? You're not committing a felony while you have your CHL are you? If you are.. I hope you get caught. But... Please surrender your CHL beforehand so it won't go against our "good record."

I'm not worried about the Police breaking down my door, I'll gladly open it for them at any time, for any reason. I'm polite to each and every LEO that I meet, he/she is my friend.

Drug dealers are not my friends, and I hope that they catch each and every drug dealer and throw away the key. If it takes smashing down their doors then so be it, after all, they're breaking the law in the first place... don't they deserve to be caught and sent to jail. Gang member the same!

Now, I'm sure that they won't go smashing down any doors for most offenses, but when they're looking for BG'S, I say go for it.

Russ
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seamusTX
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#19

Post by seamusTX »

Police break into the wrong house several times a year in the U.S. It happens because of bad information, often from informants who are criminals, or clerical errors, such as swapping digits in the address.

It happens less often than home invasion by criminals and more often than shark bites.

The fact that you are completely clean and law-abiding does not protect you from this kind of thing.

I don't lose sleep over it, but when it's in the news I feel compelled to vent.

Thanks for listening.

- Jim

TxFire
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#20

Post by TxFire »

I am concerned over the possibility of the police getting the wrong house. The house next door to me WAS a drug dealer/manufacturer and the house WAS raided by the police. Now, he was obviously in my opinion a small dealer. There was also NO ONE home when the raid occured. So they appear to have not been watching the house too close. They caught him after I called in his location. My point is they seem to have, in my perception, done a poor job in the attempt to capture a felon via a warrant/raid. This diminishes my confidence that the correct house will be entered. I am VERY pro-LEO and am torn between catching the BG's and my safety and rights.

kw5kw
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#21

Post by kw5kw »

It's that the LEO's hands are tied by the justice system, the ACLU and other leftist "civil rights" groups that they can't just go get the perps like they used to. If they (LEO's)do something wrong, then they just have turned the perp loose to start all over again.

Glockamolie
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#22

Post by Glockamolie »

TxFire wrote:My point is they seem to have, in my perception, done a poor job in the attempt to capture a felon via a warrant/raid. This diminishes my confidence that the correct house will be entered. I am VERY pro-LEO and am torn between catching the BG's and my safety and rights.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
- Brandon

WaltherP99
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#23

Post by WaltherP99 »

Here is a case in point that if the home owner was there and was armed he might not be alive today.. Scary stuff. Sounds like there needs to be a more investigation after receiving a tip on a crack house before the raid is done.


http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/local/14947301.htm

Police say they are sorry for raiding wrong houseBy ALEX BRANCH
STAR-TELEGRAM STAFF WRITER

STAR-TELEGRAM
Map: Search continuesFORT WORTH -- While publicly apologizing to the occupant of a house raided by Fort Worth police officers Wednesday, a police spokesman said Friday that the department is investigating why the wrong house was targeted.

An informant's tip that led officers to Steven Blackman's house should have been corroborated before the search warrant was sought, Lt. Dean Sullivan said.

"We made a mistake," Sullivan said at a Friday afternoon news conference.

SWAT officers stormed Blackman's house in the 3600 block of Rufus Street while looking for Howard Earl Taylor, 27, who is wanted in a recent crackdown on gangs and drugs in southeast Fort Worth.

Officers shot tear gas through the windows and broke down a back door. The house was empty, and there were no signs of drug activity.

Blackman, who was at work when the raid occurred, said that despite the apology, he is frustrated.

"They're not communicating with me," said Blackman, 46. "I still have a lot of things I need to get fixed."

According to an affidavit for a search warrant, a patrol officer met with a "reliable confidential informant" who said drug activity was occurring in the house.

The informant has on numerous occasions given officers information that has proved correct, the affidavit says.

The informant "specifically pointed out" the location for the patrol officer and said he saw Taylor selling crack cocaine in the house on a recent visit, the affidavit states.

Officer J.T. Broadwater, identified in the affidavit as assigned to the FBI Violent Crime Task Force, wrote in the affidavit that "the location appeared exactly as the patrol officer and the informant described it."

The affidavit lists Blackman's address and describes it as a single-story house "with a gray composition roof, brown wood trim, white wood siding, a black burglary bar attached to the front door and black burglar bars attached to the front window."

It notes that no visible numbers are on the house.

Blackman said that is an accurate description of his home.

A magistrate signed the warrant Wednesday morning, according to the Tarrant County clerk.

Sullivan said an investigation after the raid has found no evidence that Taylor was ever inside Blackman's house.

He said that because the ongoing investigation includes possible employee misconduct, he is limited in what he can discuss.

"Informants and tips -- those come in from time to time," Sullivan said. "But ... we do have some obligation to corroborate information, and procedures weren't followed; mistakes were made."

An FBI spokeswoman did not return a phone message late Friday afternoon.

Sullivan said he wasn't aware of any officers involved in the investigation being shifted to other duties.

Police are also investigating whether the informant "misidentified, misconstrued or misunderstood" the exact location he was trying to direct police to, Sullivan said.

"Some kind of miscommunication occurred," he said.

Sullivan said the department takes exception to what he called suggestions by the media that the SWAT team may have acted inappropriately when it entered Blackman's home. SWAT officers used appropriate tactics based on the information in the warrant that a potentially dangerous suspect was inside the house.

"SWAT did their job," he said. "They did not make a mistake."

The department accepts responsibility for the damage to Blackman's home, and repairs are already under way, Sullivan said.

Blackman said fans were brought to his house Thursday to air out remnants of the tear gas. He said he received a form from the city's risk management department to list the damages but hasn't filled it out yet.

"Because of the tear gas, I still can't get back in to see all the damage," he said. "So I don't know how bad everything is."

Blackman said that a police commander apologized to him Friday morning and that the city is paying for his hotel room. But he said he hasn't been able to return to his job remodeling houses because many of his supplies are at home.

"My life has been thrown in an upheaval," he said. "There was just no reason to for this to happen. I'm just a hardworking man."

cjlandry
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#24

Post by cjlandry »

kw5kw wrote:I think that we're just way to paranoid over this issue.

Look,
We are law-abiding citizens OR we would not have our CHL's in the first place. We're law-abiding citizens or we would not have even applied for our CHL's in the second place.

What do we have to worry about? Are you doing something wrong that you should be worried about? You're not committing a felony while you have your CHL are you? If you are.. I hope you get caught. But... Please surrender your CHL beforehand so it won't go against our "good record."
There was a guy in Florida recently (last year), suspected of selling drugs. It was known that he had a CHL (or whatever FL calls theirs), so they considered him "armed and dangerous".

This was their justification for busting into his home at 6am with a full-on SWAT team. Of course, they shot him to pieces when he went for his pistol upon having his home stormed.

This guy was a bartender or a DJ, I forget which. But he was known to get home from work at ~3am. So you can imagine how disoriented he'd be when suddenly awakened at 6am to the sound of his door crashing down. Wouldn't you go for your pistol too?

Edit: BTW, I believe they found an ounce of marijuana in his home. For this he was killed.
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carlson1
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#25

Post by carlson1 »

As far as toilet flushing - you can dig up lines and recover the dope they flushed. I have done this on four different occasions years ago and it worked.
I had a dear friend on a Drug Task Force in East Texas. They hit the wrong house. He tripped in the hallway (along with his finger on the trigger) and the gun went off shot wrong person in wrong house. I had another friend who was a deputy Marshall. He was living in an apartment complex that caught on fire. He was helping fire department go door to door to tell people to get out. He and a fireman entered an apartment and the fireman was shot by a citizen who was startled.
Goes back to KNOW your target and what is beyond it.
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