Carrying at an INS checkpoint

[Armed-Texan]

i've never had any problems at the checkpoints. the one i am most familiar with is in Sarita. are you a US citizen? yes i am? have a nice day. haven't been thru their in years though, and certainly not since carrying. when i am contacted by a LEO they get my DL and CHL, they say thanks but i don't have to see this if you aren't carrying, i just reply that i know i don't like surprises either . the gamewarden checked me fishing one day and he got my fishing license and CHL. he said, i don't know that i've ever seen one of these......
i just prefer to be upfront because i have nothing to hide and i don't want any surprises, i was carrying when the GW checked me, of course!

[srothstein]

Ncongruit,

You did a lot of research and a good job, but you missed a single law that would have made it much easier. Code of Criminal Procedure 2.122 specifically states that federal special investigators are not considered as peace officer. It also lists who it means by special investigators. Subparagraph c even specifically states that Border Patrolmen are not peace officers but gives them specific authority to detain if at a permanent checkpoint, like the one in question.

So, this law conclusively answers that there is no legal requirement to show a CHL to a border patrolman in Texas.

But, to answer the other question by Will 381796, yes they do have the same access to the database that DPS does. The way the computer system is set up, the state runs one network and they tie it into the federal network. Other than in FBI offices (and I am not sure if their regional ones do or not), to access NCIC checks, all police departments go through the state network. Thus, when they ask their dispatcher to run someone, they get the same returns in Texas as any other LEO.

[jamullinstx]

Many thanks to all of the informed responders here. One thing the responses have reinforced is that it is impossible for the average citizen to avoid breaking the law daily because the statutes are incomprehensible without spending hours reading and interpreting them.

Only one responder addressed the question of whether the checkpoints are considered federal property, or not, and that response was, I'm sorry, not correct, IMHO. Federal premises are not defined as buildings. It was only recently that we gained the relief from usurpation of our rights to be allowed to CC in national parks, and with the stroke of a pen today, a federal judge in DC placed a stay on that begrudgingly granted sliver of our rights. The parks are most certainly not buildings, but wide open spaces. So, the mind mumble that had me thinking about this at all, is still present. If the checkpoints are considered federal property, then carrying is illegal, yet I was unsure if I had the responsibility to inform the ICE officer that I was carrying by providing my CHL. It turns out that providing the CHL is not required, yet I'm still not sure that the area of the checkpoint is legal for carry. I'm not sure what one could do about it, in any case, except stop the vehicle prior to the checkpoint to disarm, thus drawing attention to oneself, or just proceeding without alarm through the checkpoint. What is the status of the checkpoints in terms of federal vs. state property?

[NcongruNt]

Ncongruit,

You did a lot of research and a good job, but you missed a single law that would have made it much easier. Code of Criminal Procedure 2.122 specifically states that federal special investigators are not considered as peace officer. It also lists who it means by special investigators. Subparagraph c even specifically states that Border Patrolmen are not peace officers but gives them specific authority to detain if at a permanent checkpoint, like the one in question.

So, this law conclusively answers that there is no legal requirement to show a CHL to a border patrolman in Texas.

DOH!

Usually the law defines what things are, not what things are not. I skimmed the rest of section 2 of the TCCP, but must have missed that little snippet.

What can I say, I Am Not A Lawyer.

[dihappy]

1. Are the INS agents considered law enforcement officers with jurisdiction to enforce Texas CHL provisions?

Feds are not peace officers in Texas.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=21906" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fortunately, I was just asked the inane question, "Are you a U.S. citizen?", and the encounter passed without incident.

¡Claro que sí!

LOL, i think ill try that next time :)

Or

Por Supuesto!

[dihappy]

Why the H E Double Hockey Sticks is there INS/ICE checkpoints *INSIDE* of the country??

I would go bananas if I got stopped by ICE inside of the country!

Well, there are ILLEGALS *INSIDE* of the country, makes sense to me :)

I hope your not the guy in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6uw7506xMw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Liberty]

Why the H E Double Hockey Sticks is there INS/ICE checkpoints *INSIDE* of the country??

I would go bananas if I got stopped by ICE inside of the country!

Well, there are ILLEGALS *INSIDE* of the country, makes sense to me :)

I hope your not the guy in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6uw7506xMw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the guy had a point. The check points are illegal and we don't have to identify themselves to to Federales who are just standing on the side of the road.

I believe landmines would be perfectly legal and cheaper in the long run.

[Luggo1]

Why the H E Double Hockey Sticks is there INS/ICE checkpoints *INSIDE* of the country??
I would go bananas if I got stopped by ICE inside of the country!

I would avoid I-10 coming east out of El Paso, there is a checkpoint there, there is one going west out of Las Cruces on I-10 in NM, they are everywhere inside the country. If you are very very white, as I am, you often get waived through no questions asked. If you have any skin color, you can expect more. There are also non-permanent checkpoints that appear from time to time all over the area along the border.

[nitrogen]

Why the H E Double Hockey Sticks is there INS/ICE checkpoints *INSIDE* of the country??

I would go bananas if I got stopped by ICE inside of the country!

Well, there are ILLEGALS *INSIDE* of the country, makes sense to me :)

I hope your not the guy in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6uw7506xMw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is pretty much how i'd react to an illegal checkpoint.

[stevie_d_64]

Why does everyone qualify their statements with "I am not a lawyer?" Has anyone ever been sued for posting faulty legal information on an internet forum that someone followed because they assumed it's correct? Why don't we just assume from the get-go that none of us are lawyers unless otherwise stated (IAAL)? Just not sure of the need for everyone to provide that disclaimer to every posting...lol

I will warn folks because In have opinions but I want to remind folks that thought process may be flawed.

My thought process is just flawed...period...

[stevie_d_64]

Why the H E Double Hockey Sticks is there INS/ICE checkpoints *INSIDE* of the country??

I would go bananas if I got stopped by ICE inside of the country!

Well, there are ILLEGALS *INSIDE* of the country, makes sense to me :)

I hope your not the guy in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6uw7506xMw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is pretty much how i'd react to an illegal checkpoint.

Man, that was priceless...

But why did she have to be so cute???

[stevie_d_64]

Why the H E Double Hockey Sticks is there INS/ICE checkpoints *INSIDE* of the country??
I would go bananas if I got stopped by ICE inside of the country!

I would avoid I-10 coming east out of El Paso, there is a checkpoint there, there is one going west out of Las Cruces on I-10 in NM, they are everywhere inside the country. If you are very very white, as I am, you often get waived through no questions asked. If you have any skin color, you can expect more. There are also non-permanent checkpoints that appear from time to time all over the area along the border.

Even though I am a "gringo", I do pass sometimes for hispanic...

This guy doing to youtube videos of these "checkpoints" is pushing a fine line...But I believe he is right in doing so...

It's only going to get worse people...

What is ironic is some people believe these "checkpoints" work...

If the BP just had the answer to these types of questions, then it might be effective...

But the powers at be believe this stuff works, therefore...

[Liberty]

Even though I am a "gringo", I do pass sometimes for hispanic...

This guy doing to youtube videos of these "checkpoints" is pushing a fine line...But I believe he is right in doing so...

It's only going to get worse people...

What is ironic is some people believe these "checkpoints" work...

If the BP just had the answer to these types of questions, then it might be effective...

But the powers at be believe this stuff works, therefore...

Any commercial or industrial operation has to have results to justify their existence. I wonder just what kind of rights results they get at these roadblocks. I don't believe they have any right to search or anything.

[stevie_d_64]

Even though I am a "gringo", I do pass sometimes for hispanic...

This guy doing to youtube videos of these "checkpoints" is pushing a fine line...But I believe he is right in doing so...

It's only going to get worse people...

What is ironic is some people believe these "checkpoints" work...

If the BP just had the answer to these types of questions, then it might be effective...

But the powers at be believe this stuff works, therefore...

Any commercial or industrial operation has to have results to justify their existence. I wonder just what kind of rights results they get at these roadblocks. I don't believe they have any right to search or anything.

Has anyone gone thru and looked at all the other videos of this subject...

When I said pushing a fine line, this is certainly the case...But, I believe that these challenges are justified, you are just going to butt up against some resistance to your resistance, therefore you might be hanging around with these types for longer than you desire, until they tell you you are free to go...

I believe they are more prepared for people like us that know what they are doing is wrong, and that they do not have to give you leave until they just don't want to deal with you any longer...If you make any attempt to drive off or give them any excuse to actually arrest you...Yer done...

The battle is not at these checkpoints...It is at the upper eschelon of their ranks and the government that allows these stops to become "normal"...

Personally, Alex Jones is an idiot...But in a sick and twisted way, he does have a point on this issue...His reasonings to why is what brands him as a fruitloop...

[Liberty]

Has anyone gone thru and looked at all the other videos of this subject...

When I said pushing a fine line, this is certainly the case...But, I believe that these challenges are justified, you are just going to butt up against some resistance to your resistance, therefore you might be hanging around with these types for longer than you desire, until they tell you you are free to go...

I believe they are more prepared for people like us that know what they are doing is wrong, and that they do not have to give you leave until they just don't want to deal with you any longer...If you make any attempt to drive off or give them any excuse to actually arrest you...Yer done...

The battle is not at these checkpoints...It is at the upper eschelon of their ranks and the government that allows these stops to become "normal"...

Personally, Alex Jones is an idiot...But in a sick and twisted way, he does have a point on this issue...His reasonings to why is what brands him as a fruitloop...

Everyman has to figure out where to draw the line. I don't believe that we are required by law to stop for these guys. We all have different battles to fight. Thank God That some folks such as Travis, Thomas Paine, Samuel Adams, or George Washington stood up to those who thought citizens were subject to the rulers, and instead demanded that people have a right to expect their governmentto to be of, by, and for the people. These stops seem unreasonable to me. I can't find justification for the Feds to be stopping citizens without just cause, without warrant. It is the Taxpayers that pay for these roads , not the Border Patrol. If the border patrol want to control our Borders I would suggest they actuallty attempt to do it at the borders themselves. That is where the laws they are trying to enforce is actually being broken.Not on our freeways.