Carrying in a public daycare?

[Booster]

My daughter is 4 and goes daily to daycare. It is not a public school. It is a private daycare that I pay to watch her. It is not affiliated with the school district in any way. There are no postings. I have not found anything that specifically prohibits carrying in a daycare. Is it legal to carry there? I have not carried yet, but it is a hassle to remove my firearm and go inside for 30 seconds and then replace it. Any ideas?









Glock 30 SF
Ruger P90
Ruger Bearcat .22
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[Purplehood]

I don't see a problem with carrying there, except for the possibility of getting jelly or poo-poo on your handgun.

[will381796]

If it's not posted and it's not a school, then carry away.

[Biga9999]

In no way an expert, but do they have any sort of accreditation? Does their policy/handbook mention anything?

My kids are in a daycare as well. I read through the manual. They do not have correct signs posted, but their policies say no weapons. If you are licensed to carry, they ask that you leave it in your vehicle. Violation will result in no longer being able to use their facilities. I would assume that qualifies as notice. Either way, I will have to disarm when I pick up my kids, b/c I do not want to go through the hassle of finding another daycare.

[will381796]

In no way an expert, but do they have any sort of accreditation? Does their policy/handbook mention anything?

My kids are in a daycare as well. I read through the manual. They do not have correct signs posted, but their policies say no weapons. If you are licensed to carry, they ask that you leave it in your vehicle. Violation will result in no longer being able to use their facilities. I would assume that qualifies as notice. Either way, I will have to disarm when I pick up my kids, b/c I do not want to go through the hassle of finding another daycare.

First, if it is in writing then it must be the same wording as you see on a 30.06 sign, even if it's simply in a handbook.

And from my experience with my daughter, you're not in a daycare long enough when you pick up or drop off in order to do anything that could result in your being outed unless you're doing a terrible job of concealing.

[Biga9999]

Curious, the way the law is written, what qualifies as a school?

[will381796]

Curious, the way the law is written, what qualifies as a school?

Same question came up the other day on a separate thread. Texas Penal Code does not define "school" so we're all left to guessing what qualifies. I take the common sense approach.

When it comes to daycare, the only thing that I think might remotely qualify it as a school is if pre-k was being held there. Firstly, Pre-K I do not think qualifies as any type of schooling in they eyes of the law. Pre-K is not mandatory in TX. I didn't go to Pre-K. Not that my opinion matters, but while learning might take place at that location, it does not make it a school. When it comes to daycare, I also look at it this way: most of the time when I am dropping off my child or picking up my child, it is near the beginning or end of the day. Whenever I'm there, there's no active teaching or instruction taking place at those times. It's basically just kids playing and waiting to get picked up. That doesn't qualify in my eyes as a school.

Would make life a whole lot easier if the legislature would define a school. If you homeschool a child, does that make your house off-limits to weapons? Wouldn't your house qualify as a school? :-/

[apostate]

Curious, the way the law is written, what qualifies as a school?

I can't find a definition in the penal code (nor the education code!) so I believe that's up to the DA and (ultimately) the judge or jury.

[barres]

In no way an expert, but do they have any sort of accreditation? Does their policy/handbook mention anything?

My kids are in a daycare as well. I read through the manual. They do not have correct signs posted, but their policies say no weapons. If you are licensed to carry, they ask that you leave it in your vehicle. Violation will result in no longer being able to use their facilities. I would assume that qualifies as notice. Either way, I will have to disarm when I pick up my kids, b/c I do not want to go through the hassle of finding another daycare.

It would not qualify in terms of notice for criminal trespass. It is written notice, and, therefore, must be written in the exact terms laid out in PC 30.06. You could not be arrested for criminal trespass without receiving a verbal notice (or better written notice first). It is, however sufficient notice that they can kick your kids out of their daycare for violating their policy. Just like the many non-compliant policy manuals at folks' workplaces that state "no guns." They can fire you, but you aren't committing a crime.

To the OP, I do not believe that a simple daycare is off-limits, and I carry at my son's day-care when applicable. When my son attended a private school that also provided daycare, however, I could not.

[Booster]

In no way an expert, but do they have any sort of accreditation? Does their policy/handbook mention anything?


As far as I know there is no accreditation. This is a private business that is owned by a woman and her husband. There are school aged children in the building awaiting pick-up from their parents. The daycare provides a van to pick them up at school. I do not have a copy of the handbook, but I do not remember reading about prohibition of firearms in it before. I have a High Noon "Alter Ego" IWB holster that does a good job of concealment with my Glock 30 SF.
I have read the penal code over and over and it does not define "school". It is definitely not posted with a sign and no one has mentioned that I could not carry there. I do notice a LEO that drops his children off there. He is always armed.

[will381796]

In no way an expert, but do they have any sort of accreditation? Does their policy/handbook mention anything?


As far as I know there is no accreditation. This is a private business that is owned by a woman and her husband. There are school aged children in the building awaiting pick-up from their parents. The daycare provides a van to pick them up at school. I do not have a copy of the handbook, but I do not remember reading about prohibition of firearms in it before. I have a High Noon "Alter Ego" IWB holster that does a good job of concealment with my Glock 30 SF.
I have read the penal code over and over and it does not define "school". It is definitely not posted with a sign and no one has mentioned that I could not carry there. I do notice a LEO that drops his children off there. He is always armed.

If you don't ask if you can carry, then they can't tell you that you can't. :-D

[philbo]

Curious, the way the law is written, what qualifies as a school?

I believe a Day Care in Texas will be treated as a school if it meets the following:

(7) "Day-care center" means a child-care facility that provides care for more than 12 children under 14 years of age for less than 24 hours a day. Human Resources Code Sec. 42.002

I got to that definition by working through the code as it is referenced under the CCW laws because this would be the penalty for carry in an weapon free school zone:

PC 46.11. PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMlTTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE SCHOOLZONE.

(c) In this section, "institution of higher education," "premises," and "school" have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety Code.

Which leads us here:

(5) "School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school or a day-care center, as defined by Section 42.002, Human Resources Code. Health & Safety Code Sec. 481.134

[Beiruty]

Interesting info. To be on the right side of legal line, I will disarm and leave my P30 in the car when I pick up or drop my son to the day care.

[MBGuy]

Curious, the way the law is written, what qualifies as a school?

I believe a Day Care in Texas will be treated as a school if it meets the following:

(7) "Day-care center" means a child-care facility that provides care for more than 12 children under 14 years of age for less than 24 hours a day. Human Resources Code Sec. 42.002

I got to that definition by working through the code as it is referenced under the CCW laws because this would be the penalty for carry in an weapon free school zone:

PC 46.11. PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMlTTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE SCHOOLZONE.

(c) In this section, "institution of higher education," "premises," and "school" have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety Code.

Which leads us here:

(5) "School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school or a day-care center, as defined by Section 42.002, Human Resources Code. Health & Safety Code Sec. 481.134

[seamusTX]

I need to point out an important nuance: PC 46.11(c) says "in this section." Those words limit that particular definition of school to PC 46.11.

PC 46.11 enhances the penalty for offenses committed within a school zone if the offender is carrying a weapon. This law is meant to apply to offenses such as assault and drug dealing committed near schools. It does not apply to carrying a weapon in a school, which is already a felony.

The argument can be made that if the legislature wanted this definition of school to apply to all of chapter 46, it would have put the definition in 46.01.

As has been pointed out many times, a pre-school is not a school by the very construction of the word pre-school.

I also need to point out that for the law to make your home a school in terms of PC 46.03(a)(1) would be absurd. If you home-school or even run an accredited private school, you can give yourself or anyone else permission to carry there.

- Jim