Open-carry in the "Old West?"

[Charles L. Cotton]

I posted this here in the general section because this thread isn't yet another pro/con on open-carry.

I watch the Westerns Channel a good bit. Between movies they often have a fellow, Bob Boze Bell, give some western historical information that is usually pretty interesting. I did a Google search on him and he is part owner and editor of True West Magazine and apparently he's quite a historian on the "old west."

A couple of nights ago, Bell talked about open-carry in the "old west." He noted that both TV and movies show people walking around town with "six guns" on their hips, but that this was not how things really worked. According to Bell, it was common to carry openly on outside of town, but in town people concealed their guns. He even commented on the gunfight at the OK Corral noting that the court record showed Wyatt Earp stated he put his pistol in his waistband and slid it around to his back under his coat, while Virgil Earp said he put his pistol in his coat pocket. (I may have the players reversed.) At the end of this short segment, he closed by saying that open-carry is popular in TV and movies, but that's not the way it worked. When people came to town, "they concealed their guns . . . just like they do today."

How interesting to see this when the open-carry debate is in full swing.

Chas.

[Purplehood]

I know that it is really two different subjects, but when I grew up in Colorado and spent the summers up on the Western Slope at relatives, my brothers and I grew up thinking it was normal to carry long-guns and holstered pistols into town (Rifle, CO). This was all pre-oil boom and the vast majority of folks up there were Ranchers.
Walking through our Grandfathers town (Parachute, once called Grand Valley), we carried rifles and revolvers to wherever we were off to totally unsupervised (pre-teen) without a second-look from the local LEOs. During the school-year (back in Aurora, CO) we could even take a long-gun to school for show-and-tell after showing the principal that you had the bolt removed.

[jbirds1210]

When people came to town, "they concealed their guns . . . just like they do today."
Chas.

That is interesting. Sounds like they kept their business to themselves and minded their manners.

Jason

[Purplehood]

That also brings to mind the change in attitude that I have now regarding open-carry almost 40 years ago. Back then it was not even an issue, safety was our concern.
Looking back, I no longer feel the same way about carrying any sort of weapon openly about town.
My, how times change.

[Morgan]

Yeah, the guy who walked into town with an open holster or...even more interesting... an open 2 gun rig, was very notable. People would cross the street to avoid them.

[stevie_d_64]

That was then, this is now...

Yes, I do understand the stories behind the concealed and open condition of how they wore their guns back then...

But it would be neat to see "why" it was done that way, back then...

I might even speculate to why they did because it might have had something to do with a gentleman's appearance or agreement, or how one was perceived in public (in town), maybe something along those lines...

It was also perceived by the public (at one time) that only criminals, or people of dubious background with ill intent, would carry a gun concealed...I believe I remember that was in the Time Life book set called the "Old West" in the "Gunfighters" volume...

[Kawabuggy]

Purplehood, small world! My ex (along with my daughter) recently moved back to Rifle, CO. where she was born & raised. I got the chance to visit and spend some time up in the mountains where her grandfather owns quite a bit of land. Beautiful country, no neighbors for miles, and no traffic jams, or uppety city folk. I'd like to retire up there if property value is not astronomical by then. Her grandfather still lives in the adobe house that his father built sometime in the late 1800's.

I now have a place to go and stay when I want to hunt elk or really big white tail deer! I can't wait to go out there for the first hunt!

[boomerang]

I posted this here in the general section because this thread isn't yet another pro/con on open-carry.

I watch the Westerns Channel a good bit. Between movies they often have a fellow, Bob Boze Bell, give some western historical information that is usually pretty interesting. I did a Google search on him and he is part owner and editor of True West Magazine and apparently he's quite a historian on the "old west."

A couple of nights ago, Bell talked about open-carry in the "old west." He noted that both TV and movies show people walking around town with "six guns" on their hips, but that this was not how things really worked. According to Bell, it was common to carry openly on outside of town, but in town people concealed their guns. He even commented on the gunfight at the OK Corral noting that the court record showed Wyatt Earp stated he put his pistol in his waistband and slid it around to his back under his coat, while Virgil Earp said he put his pistol in his coat pocket. (I may have the players reversed.) At the end of this short segment, he closed by saying that open-carry is popular in TV and movies, but that's not the way it worked. When people came to town, "they concealed their guns . . . just like they do today."

How interesting to see this when the open-carry debate is in full swing.

Chas.

Yes. Very interesting. Bell says most people in the "old west" concealed in town because of personal preference or local custom, but legally they could carry openly or concealed. That sounds a lot like what the open carry supporters want the law changed to allow.

[Morgan]

It was also perceived by the public (at one time) that only criminals, or people of dubious background with ill intent, would carry a gun concealed...I believe I remember that was in the Time Life book set called the "Old West" in the "Gunfighters" volume...

The level of historical scholarship of such books is generally very questionable. Those same types of books told tales of medieval knights who had to be lifted onto their horses by windlass, which is patently inaccurate, as an example.

[jimlongley]

My family has a couple of long generations, my great grandfather served in the War Between the States, and stayed in the Army until the late 1890s. My grandmother was born in Santa Fe in 1879 and lived at Army posts all over the "wild west", knew Annie Oakley, met Sitting Bull when she was a child, and met Geronimo several times, along with many other famous, infamous, and non-famous indians. She knew Buffalo Bill, and a variety of other personages too.

My grandmother used to scoff at the westerns, that was where she grew up, Ft. Davis, Ft. Stockton, and others up and down west Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Montana, Wyoming, and the Dakotas. My Great Grandfather was an officer in the Ninth, Tenth, and Seventh Cavalry, including "The Battle at Wounded Knee" as she called it, and other places until he retired in 1898. He was an "indian fighter" and she grew up in those places.

My grandmother carried a variety of guns in her lifetime, I wish I had the picture of her in full cowgirl rig with a Colt on her hip, but being the black sheep of the family, I didn't get any of the family memorabilia, and she lectured me many times on how "polite people" just didn't go around carrying guns that way, but they did carry them. She had a "purse pistol" a little .32 S&W that she carried at such dangerous places as West Point and Ft. Snelling and was an accomplished shot, once even chasing off a "dangerous" Wallaby in Canberra Australia when she and my grandfather lived there, with their two young sons.

Anyway, she was there, she brought fascinating tales of the times to the ears of a rapt young boy who just worshipped her, and she told me that the west wasn't all that wild, and she was more afraid in Philidelphia, Boston, and NY than she ever was in "Indian Territory." So it just kind of riles me a little when someone uses that term.

If you're interested, my Great Grandfather John S. Loud's Arlington remembrance: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/jmloud.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And a treaty he signed as a Captain of the Niinth Cavalry in Wyoming: http://www.easternshoshone.net/1896-cession.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both of my grandfathers are buried there, and their wives, and my great grandfather , and his wife, Arlington is kind of a family cemetery.

[jorge]

My grandmother carried a variety of guns in her lifetime, I wish I had the picture of her in full cowgirl rig with a Colt on her hip, but being the black sheep of the family, I didn't get any of the family memorabilia, and she lectured me many times on how "polite people" just didn't go around carrying guns that way, but they did carry them.

Men used to take off their hats indoors. Kids today wear their hats indoors and sideways. It's bad manners but I don't think it should be a Class A misdemeanor to wear a hat indoors.

[Oldgringo]

I posted this here in the general section because this thread isn't yet another pro/con on open-carry.

I watch the Westerns Channel a good bit. Between movies they often have a fellow, Bob Boze Bell, give some western historical information that is usually pretty interesting. I did a Google search on him and he is part owner and editor of True West Magazine and apparently he's quite a historian on the "old west."

A couple of nights ago, Bell talked about open-carry in the "old west." He noted that both TV and movies show people walking around town with "six guns" on their hips, but that this was not how things really worked. According to Bell, it was common to carry openly on outside of town, but in town people concealed their guns. He even commented on the gunfight at the OK Corral noting that the court record showed Wyatt Earp stated he put his pistol in his waistband and slid it around to his back under his coat, while Virgil Earp said he put his pistol in his coat pocket. (I may have the players reversed.) At the end of this short segment, he closed by saying that open-carry is popular in TV and movies, but that's not the way it worked. When people came to town, "they concealed their guns . . . just like they do today."

How interesting to see this when the open-carry debate is in full swing.

Chas.

Does this mean my Marty Robbins western ballads are bogus? Say it ain't so.

[stevie_d_64]

I posted this here in the general section because this thread isn't yet another pro/con on open-carry.

I watch the Westerns Channel a good bit. Between movies they often have a fellow, Bob Boze Bell, give some western historical information that is usually pretty interesting. I did a Google search on him and he is part owner and editor of True West Magazine and apparently he's quite a historian on the "old west."

A couple of nights ago, Bell talked about open-carry in the "old west." He noted that both TV and movies show people walking around town with "six guns" on their hips, but that this was not how things really worked. According to Bell, it was common to carry openly on outside of town, but in town people concealed their guns. He even commented on the gunfight at the OK Corral noting that the court record showed Wyatt Earp stated he put his pistol in his waistband and slid it around to his back under his coat, while Virgil Earp said he put his pistol in his coat pocket. (I may have the players reversed.) At the end of this short segment, he closed by saying that open-carry is popular in TV and movies, but that's not the way it worked. When people came to town, "they concealed their guns . . . just like they do today."

How interesting to see this when the open-carry debate is in full swing.

Chas.

Does this mean my Marty Robbins western ballads are bogus? Say it ain't so.

I could never figure out how a guy could sing about himself getting shot in a jealous rage, and discribe himself dying...

[Charles L. Cotton]

I posted this here in the general section because this thread isn't yet another pro/con on open-carry.

I watch the Westerns Channel a good bit. Between movies they often have a fellow, Bob Boze Bell, give some western historical information that is usually pretty interesting. I did a Google search on him and he is part owner and editor of True West Magazine and apparently he's quite a historian on the "old west."

A couple of nights ago, Bell talked about open-carry in the "old west." He noted that both TV and movies show people walking around town with "six guns" on their hips, but that this was not how things really worked. According to Bell, it was common to carry openly on outside of town, but in town people concealed their guns. He even commented on the gunfight at the OK Corral noting that the court record showed Wyatt Earp stated he put his pistol in his waistband and slid it around to his back under his coat, while Virgil Earp said he put his pistol in his coat pocket. (I may have the players reversed.) At the end of this short segment, he closed by saying that open-carry is popular in TV and movies, but that's not the way it worked. When people came to town, "they concealed their guns . . . just like they do today."

How interesting to see this when the open-carry debate is in full swing.

Chas.

Does this mean my Marty Robbins western ballads are bogus? Say it ain't so.

I know; it's heartbreaking!!

Chas.

[barres]

I posted this here in the general section because this thread isn't yet another pro/con on open-carry.

I watch the Westerns Channel a good bit. Between movies they often have a fellow, Bob Boze Bell, give some western historical information that is usually pretty interesting. I did a Google search on him and he is part owner and editor of True West Magazine and apparently he's quite a historian on the "old west."

A couple of nights ago, Bell talked about open-carry in the "old west." He noted that both TV and movies show people walking around town with "six guns" on their hips, but that this was not how things really worked. According to Bell, it was common to carry openly on outside of town, but in town people concealed their guns. He even commented on the gunfight at the OK Corral noting that the court record showed Wyatt Earp stated he put his pistol in his waistband and slid it around to his back under his coat, while Virgil Earp said he put his pistol in his coat pocket. (I may have the players reversed.) At the end of this short segment, he closed by saying that open-carry is popular in TV and movies, but that's not the way it worked. When people came to town, "they concealed their guns . . . just like they do today."

How interesting to see this when the open-carry debate is in full swing.

Chas.

Yes. Very interesting. Bell says most people in the "old west" concealed in town because of personal preference or local custom, but legally they could carry openly or concealed. That sounds a lot like what the open carry supporters want the law changed to allow.

I saw a History Channel segment on the gunfight at the OK Corral that stated there was a town ordinance against the open carry of guns. That the Earps were going to the Corral to enforce that ordinance, but had been stopped on the way and told that the Clancy Gang (do I remember the name correctly?) had concealed their guns, so they concealed theirs. They continued to the OK, where the found the Clancy Gang OC'ing in violation of the town ordinance, which started the gunfight, when the gang refused to obey it. I cannot vouch for the History Channel's accuracy in their research; I'm simply reporting what they reported.