Showing CHL to border patrol

[Skipper5]

My family and I are driving to mexico for vacation next month.
should I show my CHL to the customs agent along with drivers license?
first time going with my CHL across the border.
there's also a border patrol check point farther away from there .

Don;'t even think about carrying into Mexico if driving....if ever stopped...get into a wreck, etc....total nightmare...jailtime! Just read the signs as you approach the border.....there was a special on 20/20 or Dateline...Nightline...one of those shows....plus horror stories I read when out in San Diego about someone just released from Mexican jail, etc

[John]

If you drive across, don't even have any ammo in your car. They do random searches at the border. If you get a red light, you get searched. If you have ammo, you got to jail.

[John]

no where did I say I was taking my gun to mexico
I'm talking about showing my CHL to customs ,and border patrol
on the U.S side. you know showing it to law enforcement when asked for I.D and all thet good stuff.

I've driven through the boder check points down south. I stop and hold up my driver's license with the CHL behind it so it is not obvious. They've only glanced down and waved me though. Never took it from my hands. Technically they didn't "request ID" since I already held it up and out of the window.

[edgarou]

thank everyone far all the advise
the thought of taking my gun never crossed my mind.
As far as getting a passport to travel to avoid any hassle
never really thought about it. maybe if we were going to A real country yes . but this is just Mexico maybe if your traveling by plane you need it
I guess i'll need it when the government starts getting more strict
with border security and everyone has to have an I.D card that is counterfeit proof when coming across the border. but never mind thats another topic.
so what do you think are fixed check point consider government property
what about carrying when driving through.

[Photoman]

Whether you are required to show your CHL or not depends on if you are carrying. If you are not in possession of your handgun, then you do not have to show ANYONE your CHL.

Wow! This is news to me. I was left, after my CHL class, with the distinct impression that I was required to ALWAYS show my CHL to LEO when asked for identification no matter what my carry status.

I wont say where I took my CHL class!

[wrt45]

Whether you are required to show your CHL or not depends on if you are carrying. If you are not in possession of your handgun, then you do not have to show ANYONE your CHL.

Wow! This is news to me. I was left, after my CHL class, with the distinct impression that I was required to ALWAYS show my CHL to LEO when asked for identification no matter what my carry status.

I wont say where I took my CHL class!

We teach our students that, while you are not technically required to show an officer the CHL if you aren't carrying, its still a good idea. As soon as the officer runs the license, he/she knows you have a CHL and then they'll ask you if you are carrying. We teach "tell them first."

I hadn't ever thought about the Border Patrol issue that this thread raises.

I don't think BP requesting ID results in a license check like a traffic stop would, but I don't know. Any of you LE guys know? Does BP run checks through the system? Should we modify our advice in this instance?

[txinvestigator]

Whether you are required to show your CHL or not depends on if you are carrying. If you are not in possession of your handgun, then you do not have to show ANYONE your CHL.

Wow! This is news to me. I was left, after my CHL class, with the distinct impression that I was required to ALWAYS show my CHL to LEO when asked for identification no matter what my carry status.

I wont say where I took my CHL class!

We teach our students that, while you are not technically required to show an officer the CHL if you aren't carrying, its still a good idea. As soon as the officer runs the license, he/she knows you have a CHL and then they'll ask you if you are carrying. We teach "tell them first."

I hadn't ever thought about the Border Patrol issue that this thread raises.

I don't think BP requesting ID results in a license check like a traffic stop would, but I don't know. Any of you LE guys know? Does BP run checks through the system? Should we modify our advice in this instance?

What do you mean technically? The law is clear

Texas Government Code


§411.205. Displaying license; penalty.

(a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the
license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands
that the license holder display identification, the license holder
shall display both the license holder's driver's license or
identification certificate issued by the department and the license
holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display
the license and identification as required by this subsection is
subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section
411.187.

[Paladin]

If a Texas Peace Officer asks me for ID and I'm NOT carrying (forbid the thought) I will mention that I have a CHL and that I am NOT armed.

So when they run the ID, it will not be a surprise that I have a CHL... and it will be clear that I'm not trying to hide anything.

If they are NOT a Texas Peace Officer... I'm NOT going to volunteer any info. Federal officers may not be knowledgeable or trained on the subject of CHLs. I heard about a federal officer that freaked out when a CHL told him he was armed. You aren't required to notify them and I believe its best not to make it an issue.

[Scott Murray]

For what its worth, my wife grew up in Del Rio, and my in laws still live there. I've been stopped at the border patrol check point near Uvalde countless times, but I've never been asked for ID. The agent will look in the car, ask a few questions, and wave us on.

My daughters had their car searched once. I guess young people might be thought more likely to being carrying drugs. A nephew tried to be a smart aleck one time, and got spread eagled on the asphalt. I expect the experience was good for him.

I doubt most of the officers would be too paranoid about guns. They see plenty of rifles during hunting season. If I'm ever asked for ID, my personal plan is to show the CHL. I'm not sure it's legally required, but if there's any question, why not?

Scott

[kw5kw]

To keep from being a 'test case' I will always show my DL and CHL to any... and I mean any officer of the law. No matter if it's FBI, Border Patrol, DPS, Sheriff, Local or whatever... I WILL SHOW and TELL.

Heck, for one: I'm proud to have passed the stringent background verification process that was required for me to have this license in the first place. By producing said license, maybe--just maybe--this LEO will cut me some slack.

After all, notice the law doesn't say anything about it being "A TEXAS LEO" in the first place. If I'm in Vermont, and I get pulled over by the county mountie, I'm-A-Showin'.

Second, If I don't tell (He already knows because it will come up on screen anyway) I have just given said LEO an excuse to search my vehicle/person... probable cause: "Lying about having a weapon." Why go thru that?

[txinvestigator]

To keep from being a 'test case' I will always show my DL and CHL to any... and I mean any officer of the law. No matter if it's FBI, Border Patrol, DPS, Sheriff, Local or whatever... I WILL SHOW and TELL.

Heck, for one: I'm proud to have passed the stringent background verification process that was required for me to have this license in the first place. By producing said license, maybe--just maybe--this LEO will cut me some slack.

Fair enough

After all, notice the law doesn't say anything about it being "A TEXAS LEO" in the first place. If I'm in Vermont, and I get pulled over by the county mountie, I'm-A-Showin'.

It says Peace Officer, and Peace Officer is defined in the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure. A BP agent is not a peace officer.

Second, If I don't tell (He already knows because it will come up on screen anyway) I have just given said LEO an excuse to search my vehicle/person... probable cause: "Lying about having a weapon." Why go thru that?

If you are not carrying a handgun, failing to tell him you have a CHL is NOT an excuse to search your vehicle. No way, no how!

[kw5kw]

It says Peace Officer, and Peace Officer is defined in the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure. A BP agent is not a peace officer.

Do they not have arrest powers?

Second, If I don't tell (He already knows because it will come up on screen anyway) I have just given said LEO an excuse to search my vehicle/person... probable cause: "Lying about having a weapon." Why go thru that?

If you are not carrying a handgun, failing to tell him you have a CHL is NOT an excuse to search your vehicle. No way, no how!

Our instructor was very emphatic on this point... Show and keep yourself out of trouble.

[KBCraig]

For what its worth, my wife grew up in Del Rio, and my in laws still live there. I've been stopped at the border patrol check point near Uvalde countless times, but I've never been asked for ID. The agent will look in the car, ask a few questions, and wave us on.

My daughters had their car searched once. I guess young people might be thought more likely to being carrying drugs. A nephew tried to be a smart aleck one time, and got spread eagled on the asphalt. I expect the experience was good for him.

I have a real problem with these "interior" checkpoints, some of which are as far as 70 miles from the border.

Please explain the constitutional authority for Border Patrol stopping and searching, with no warrant or probable cause, a car that has not been across the border.

Kevin

[txinvestigator]

It says Peace Officer, and Peace Officer is defined in the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure. A BP agent is not a peace officer.

Do they not have arrest powers?

It does not matter. The CCP states that LEOs not specifically listed as Peace Officer under the CCP, ARE NOT PEACE OFFICERS.


Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
Art. 2.122. Special investigators.

(a) The following named criminal investigators of the United
States shall not be deemed peace officers, but shall have the powers
of arrest, search and seizure as to felony offenses only under the
laws of the State of Texas:

(1) Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation;

(2) Special Agents of the Secret Service;

(3) Special Agents of the United States Customs Service;....

BP agents are SA's of the Customs Service. Feds are not Peace Officers.

They can arrest for felonies. However, failing to show your CHL when ID is requested is NOT a criminal offense. It is administrative. You cannot be arrested or charged with a crime for failure to display your CHL unless you have once prior had your CHL suspended for Fail to Display your CHL.

Second, If I don't tell (He already knows because it will come up on screen anyway) I have just given said LEO an excuse to search my vehicle/person... probable cause: "Lying about having a weapon." Why go thru that?

If you are not carrying a handgun, failing to tell him you have a CHL is NOT an excuse to search your vehicle. No way, no how!

Our instructor was very emphatic on this point... Show and keep yourself out of trouble.

While I don't disagree with that advice, it is not a legal requirement, and not showing your CHL if you are not carrying will not get you into any legal or administrative trouble.

[Kalrog]

I have a real problem with these "interior" checkpoints, some of which are as far as 70 miles from the border.

Please explain the constitutional authority for Border Patrol stopping and searching, with no warrant or probable cause, a car that has not been across the border.

Kevin

Kevin, you are not the only one. What would happen if you refused? What grounds would they detain / arrest / search you on? That whole pesky 4th amendment thing that some of us swore to protect and defend...