Requirement to Present CHL @ Time Of ID Request by Officer

[ninjamedic2293]

Forgive my grammar and spelling as I am committing a mortal sin - typing while irritated. About an hour ago I was stopped by an Austin Police Officer and cited for "failure to signal intent". Driving my girlfriend's mothers pickup while moving some of GF's furniture to my parents house for garage sale tomorrow. I am a well dressed, well spoken Caucasian male in my mid twenties, driving a one year old well kept pickup, in a very upscale part of town, with my 60 year old mother in the passenger seat. Since I was in someone else's vehicle and moving some small furniture, I left my firearm in my computer bag at my parents residence earlier in the evening. Just for background, I know how to respond and interact with LEO's during traffic stops, I am a city paramedic and commissioned firefighter assigned to provide medical coverage to the bomb squad. I initially was unable to locate proof of liability insurance due to it being an unfamiliar vehicle, I ask the officer for permission to retrieve my cell phone and contact my GF to locate said insurance. He agreed and returned to his vehicle to run my license. I had not presented my CHL since I was not carrying my Handgun. After an exceptionally long period of time two additional patrol units pulled in, the three officers conferred, approached our vehicle and asked me and my mother to step out. They separated us, and questioned us individually. I was asked if I had a current CHL card in my possession (they already new I had a CHL and that it wasn't expired obviously since they saw it on the MDC), I answered yes, they asked me if I had ever had a class on concealed carry (which they know is a requirement) and I answered that yes I had why did he asked, (at this point he was being quite confrontational) and he said "well then you must obviously be aware of the requirement to show me your CHL right?", I said I am aware that if I am carrying my handgun and you ask me for ID then I am required to present my CHL along with my drivers license however I am not carrying. He got defensive and said well it doesn't matter you still have to show me. Any way long story short they conferred and released me after he cited me for the "failure to signal intent." The ticket really doest bother me as I can take defensive driving and get rid of it. However the aggressiveness of the officers and the presumption that I was a criminal attempting to hide he fact that I had a weapon really bothers me. This is why we need to work to get rid of the duty to present our chl. This is the first time I have ever been stopped since getting my CHL when I HAVENT been carrying. Did I do anything wrong? Do yall handle it differently in this situation? I would appreciate your input.

[will381796]

I think you did a great job. This was just an example of a cop that thought he knew the law and wanted to see if he could bully you around. Good job keeping your composure. You did nothing wrong.

[apostate]

You're not required to display your CHL when you're not "carrying a handgun on or about" your person. However, as you learned, it may be a good idea to do so anyhow, to prevent problems with people who are ignorant or have attitude problems.

[FlynJay]

You need to write a nice, non-confrontational letter to the officer's supervisor. Explain the situation just as you did here. There is not] excuse for police officers bullying people around. You were clearly in the right and the ticket was just a warning to you to "do as your told", from the officer.

[dave_in_austin]

You should send an email to the Chief of Police explaining that some of his officers appeared to be confused on the law (provide officer names, location, time, statute cite, etc.). I would not mention the traffic citation in the email so that there will be no appearance that you are trying to get out of that. Acevedo says he is really trying to clean up the APD and will tolerate no unprofessional behavior from his officers and seems to suspend officers at the drop of a hat for not following procedure. I suspect that he will be annoyed that his officers do not know the law and may take some action (such as issue a department-wide memo explaining the law) if presented with a specific, documented case. I would CC the email to the local media.

[stevie_d_64]

Your actions were correct and per the law...Their attitude was incorrect...But whatya gonna do??? Absolutely nothing...

I have resided myself to the fact that when I get pulled over, I will recieve a citation for something...That way my attitude is in check regardless of what they think about me carrying...

I have never been behind the wheel of a vehicle without the firearm being on my person...

And since I am a passenger sometimes...That fact naver changes either...If we are told to exit the vehicle, and they officially ask me to identify myself, I will at that time produce my ID's which is my understanding complying with the provision in the law that I notify...I do not say a word to any fact (in that encounter) that involves the word "gun" or "firearm" when I hand the ID's to them...That act in my interpretation is sufficient notification...

I have never had anything but indifference (to my CHL) in my official encounters with Texas Law Enforcement since I recieved my license...

Matter of fact, the last time I got pulled over for speeding, the officer handed "it" back like I sneezed on it...

[Oldgringo]

You should send an email to the Chief of Police explaining that some of his officers appeared to be confused on the law (provide officer names, location, time, statute cite, etc.). I would not mention the traffic citation in the email so that there will be no appearance that you are trying to get out of that. Acevedo says he is really trying to clean up the APD and will tolerate no unprofessional behavior from his officers and seems to suspend officers at the drop of a hat for not following procedure. I suspect that he will be annoyed that his officers do not know the law and may take some action (such as issue a department-wide memo explaining the law) if presented with a specific, documented case. I would CC the email to the local media.

E-mails don't count, letters have words and are on paper. If you really want it to count, you send it, Registered-Return Receipt Requested.

[03Lightningrocks]

Could some of this have to do with geography? Austin is the capitol of liberalism in Texas and I can just picture them having preconceived notions about CHL's. I don't make a habit of getting pulled over but the officers around the area I frequent seem to be OK with CHL holders.

[ClarkLZeuss]

I think you did everything right, and I am just guessing here, but I don't think his presumption was as simple as you hiding a weapon. He probably got nervous when he ran your license, CHL popped up, and he's thinking about you driving someone else's vehicle, wondering all along why you didn't show the CHL. "Maybe this guy stole that car? Or worse, he's taken that poor woman hostage! Better get some backup." So then, he's probably a bit on edge wondering what's gonna happen next, then gets embarrassed that you know the law better than he does, so (in a typical human male response), he turns all of those emotions into anger.

Not a psychologist here, nor a cop, but that's one possible way I might have reacted were I in his shoes. Still, his facts weren't straight (as evidenced by him blowing smoke about your CHL, yet he hands out no punitive response) and they oughta be straightened out somehow. Sorry to hear how this shook you up. You did a fine job of handling yourself!

[nuparadigm]

The same thing happened to me in a town in Fort Bend County. The next day, I went to the watch commander of the offending officer's watch and showed him the applicable statute. A few minutes later, he conducted remedial education for the officers on his shift.

[kd5zex]

Sorry to hear about your encounter. A LEO friend of mine held the same the belief as the officers you encountered. I think there are a lot of officers out there are not fully aware of the laws on the books.

[pt145ss]

Could some of this have to do with geography? Austin is the capitol of liberalism in Texas and I can just picture them having preconceived notions about CHL's. I don't make a habit of getting pulled over but the officers around the area I frequent seem to be OK with CHL holders.

I do not think this is the case. Overs the years I have had 3 encounters with Austin PD, One encounter with Travis County, and One with Kyle PD. And believe it or not, the best experiences were with APD as they just as they just had a real indifference about. Travis County was a little suspicious as i showed id even though i was not carrying i do not think he believed that i was not carrying. The Kyle enounter was just strange, because he did not ask the usual questions like are you carrying and where is it. He acted real uptight...like walking backwards when going from my car to his.

[03Lightningrocks]

He acted real uptight...like walking backwards when going from my car to his.

Oh my.....that is not a good sign. It's a good thing you didn't sneeze, he might have dropped you right on the spot.

When I would visit my son while he attended UT, it just seemed Austin had more than it's fair share of Kum by yah, dance in the sun naked, liberals. That place was an Obama strong hold during the primaries. They serve up buckets of Kool Aid to the college students. I didn't know if the politics of the city managers might spill over into the Police department.

[llama]

Do LEOS keep silent when you show them your ID and CHL? The reason I'm asking is cause, what if you're driving your vehicle and you have passengers with you that don't know you're carrying your pistol and don't know you have a CHL, and you don't want them to know. Will LEOS ask you if you are armed in the presence of others? Anyone relate to this?.....Gracias.

[WildBill]

Do LEOS keep silent when you show them your ID and CHL? The reason I'm asking is cause, what if you're driving your vehicle and you have passengers with you that don't know you're carrying your pistol and don't know you have a CHL, and you don't want them to know. Will LEOS ask you if you are armed in the presence of others? Anyone relate to this?.....Gracias.

It depends on the situation. The LEOs don't know or care if you don't want anyone to know if you have a CHL or are carrying your pistol.