GITMO

[anygunanywhere]

My understanding is now that you believe the power to arbitrarily detain anyone is an appropriate power of the state, but we have simply allowed the wrong people to wield that power.

We are not arbitrarily detaining anyone. These are terrorist. They swear alegiance to a religious ideal. They are not uniformed organized military from any recognized country. They Are not signatories of any ratified treaty on warfare from any foreign nation.

Terrorists.

If we had better bureaucrats we would not need to fear them labeling the wrong people.

Better bureaucrats are not needed. Bureaucrats who believe in the Constitution and BOR and the rights of Citizens of these 50 states are what we need.

They were caught in the act...

If they were caught in the act. That is a question of fact that we must have a just process to determine which respects the natural, god given, inalienable and self-evident rights of all people.

My position so we will be clear:

1. Terrorists do not have rights guaranteed by COTUS or BOR.

2. Bringing them to Gitmo was a mistake.

3. Terrorists do not have access to our civilian courts. SCOTUS has no jurisdiction over individuals that do not have our rights.

4. When captured they should have been questioned in a manner consistent with the way they treated Americans they have held captive. Since the world does not define the way they treat us as barbaric then it must be just fine.

5. Once all valuable information was gleaned they should have been executed in a manner consistent with the way they have executed Americans they have held captive. Again, since the world does not define the way they execute captives as barbaric then it must be just fine.

6. I do not care what the world would think about this. Frankly if we actually did this then other nations would not mess with us.

7. Free will. The terrorists made the conscious decision to do what they did. They must understand the consequences of their actions. They want to be martyrs. Give them what they desire!

Some may think I am being inconsistent but I do not. So far what we have done has not eliminateds the problem. Continuing to do what we are doing is insanity.

Anygunanywhere

[Frost]

These are terrorist. They swear alegiance to a religious ideal.

Why are you certain that this is true for the every single one of the hundreds of detainees at GITMO?

My position so we will be clear:

My disagreements with that position are relatively minor compared to a point you omitted. What would be a just process to determine that they are in fact terrorists?

[anygunanywhere]

These are terrorist. They swear alegiance to a religious ideal.

Why are you certain that this is true for the every single one of the hundreds of detainees at GITMO?

My position so we will be clear:

My disagreements with that position are relatively minor compared to a point you omitted. What would be a just process to determine that they are in fact terrorists?

Were they captured in combat fighting against our troops?

Did they kill US citizens? Several have bragged about what they have done openly. If, when captured, they tell interrogators that they want to kill us, deal with it.

Why do I need proof? Why do I need to define a just process? Evidently you are the one who wants proof. What do you want to do? Invite them over to your house for dinner? Chairman Maobama said he has people studying the situation and developing a process to deal with them. You can rest assured his process will prevent more terrorist attacks and make the world love us.

What I have stated is my system. If they walk and talk like terrorists they are terrorists.

Anygunanywhere

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

and its not racist its profiling!

[Purplehood]

I must admit that after reading a few posts, I have a clearer understanding of why President Bush was elected in the first place.

As I have said elsewhere on previous posts, the pendulum swings wildly in the opposite direction once it has reached one extreme or the other. Hold on for your rides, everybody.

[Commander Cody]

Thank you AGAW. Most admirably good synapses.

[Frost]

Were they captured in combat fighting against our troops?

No, not even the majority of them.

Did they kill US citizens?

Great question. How about we find out before we torture and kill them?

Several have bragged about what they have done openly.

If, when captured, they tell interrogators that they want to kill us, deal with it.

Why deny them a just process to determine their guilt when they make it trivial with confessions?

Why do I need proof? Why do I need to define a just process?

When your suggested punishment is torture and death, are you seriously asking those questions?

[anygunanywhere]

Why do I need proof? Why do I need to define a just process?

When your suggested punishment is torture and death, are you seriously asking those questions?

Yes. I guess you have not quite grasped my stance. I am not the bleeding heart here. You did not define your justice system. Tell us what it is. I am betting it is/will be the Maobama system.

ETA: BTW, if your or any other bleeding heart justice process results in the terrorists returning to the terrorist stock and trade or results in the death of any other innocent individual at all including non-Americans then your process is obviously flawed. Justice means that the guilty pay for their crimes and NEVER again perpetrate hostility towards another human being.

Anygunanywhere

[anygunanywhere]

One thing that sickens me about the whole Gitmo deal parallels what Libert's thoughts were. We cook them their special muslim food with their allah secret sauce, hand them their infidel battle plan (koran) with gloved hands, provide them with everything they need including health care, and Americans are still the evil satan.

They have named the wrong people satan.

Anygunanywhere

[Frost]

Why do I need proof? Why do I need to define a just process?

When your suggested punishment is torture and death, are you seriously asking those questions?

Yes.

Killing someone already detained without a just process is murder. Torturing them is a greater evil.

I guess you have not quite grasped my stance. I am not the bleeding heart here.

I grasped it well enough, but i felt it would be inappropriate to hastily accuse you of advocating murder and worse. I am hardly a "bleeding heart" I would imagine a liberal would accuse me of being rather hard hearted towards the "underprivileged."

You did not define your justice system. Tell us what it is. I am betting it is/will be the Maobama system.

I am no legal scholar, but i will do my best to describe a just system. I believe that habeas corpus is too important to be suspended except when it is necessary to temporarily detain masses of people. A few hundred detainees over a period of years hardly qualifies. I believe probable cause that they are an enemy combatant would be satisfactory for turning them over to a military tribunal. If the tribunal finds them to be an enemy combatant they should be interrogated without torture and executed.

A process such as that should protect people from arbitrary state action and respect the inalienable rights of all people while not interfering with our ability to fight stateless enemies.

[anygunanywhere]

Killing someone already detained without a just process is murder. Torturing them is a greater evil.

If you insist that those in captivity at Gitmo were tortured then you have a skewed understanding of what torture is.

I grasped it well enough, but i felt it would be inappropriate to hastily accuse you of advocating murder and worse. I am hardly a "bleeding heart" I would imagine a liberal would accuse me of being rather hard hearted towards the "underprivileged."

In my world trerrorists do not receive better treatment than a three-time loser car thief in California that is spending life in prison without parole.

I am no legal scholar, but i will do my best to describe a just system. I believe that habeas corpus is too important to be suspended except when it is necessary to temporarily detain masses of people. A few hundred detainees over a period of years hardly qualifies. I believe probable cause that they are an enemy combatant would be satisfactory for turning them over to a military tribunal. If the tribunal finds them to be an enemy combatant they should be interrogated without torture and executed.

A process such as that should protect people from arbitrary state action and respect the inalienable rights of all people while not interfering with our ability to fight stateless enemies.

They are not a few hundred, they are in the thousands. Maobama's executive order also applies to the terrorists held in Iraq and Afghanistan. When you made the statement in an earlier post that only a few were captured in combat, you were wrong. Most of them were actually captured in combat by US and our Iraqi and Afghani allies. Most were not sent by other nations. Take another drink of kool aid. These are not cab drivers being railroaded. They are murdering thug terrorists. Go ahead and say it along with me. M-U-R-D-E-R-I-N-G T-E-R-R-O-R-I-S-T-S. Not freedom fighters. Not uniformed military combatants. Not POWs. They do not even rank as criminals.

I am done.

Anygunanywhere

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

[stevie_d_64]

These are terrorist. They swear alegiance to a religious ideal.

Why are you certain that this is true for the every single one of the hundreds of detainees at GITMO?

My position so we will be clear:

My disagreements with that position are relatively minor compared to a point you omitted. What would be a just process to determine that they are in fact terrorists?

Why do we flog ourselves to the point that it is imperative that we scrutinize ourselves (since we are reacting to the terrorist existence and actions) more than the aggressors who have preemptively engaged us??? I'm tired of some people trying to make nice and feel sorry for us finally taking the fight to those that attack us...

The number of terrorist we have in captivity, in my opinion is absolutely amazing...I always thought they would be better off being killed on the battlefield than be captured...

Like I mentioned earlier...Buy a few boxes of cheap Walmart priced white boxes, and take care of business...When the last terrorist is executed, close the facility...Then change the policy in the field to no terrorist retention longer than it is needed to rat out his/her buddies and then move on to them...

But alas, I do not believe a decisive policy will come about anytime soon, other than the policy to appease and coddle regimes and terrorist movements thinking they'll leave us alone after we make nice to them...

Anyone that believes that...Well...I can't post what I want to say about those types of people...

[stevie_d_64]

Killing someone already detained without a just process is murder. Torturing them is a greater evil.

I am no legal scholar, but i will do my best to describe a just system. I believe that habeas corpus is too important to be suspended except when it is necessary to temporarily detain masses of people. A few hundred detainees over a period of years hardly qualifies. I believe probable cause that they are an enemy combatant would be satisfactory for turning them over to a military tribunal. If the tribunal finds them to be an enemy combatant they should be interrogated without torture and executed.

A process such as that should protect people from arbitrary state action and respect the inalienable rights of all people while not interfering with our ability to fight stateless enemies.

Killing a terrorist is a battlefield issue...They should not be afforded leniency or accomodation beyond the fact that they got caught instead of killed on the battlefield...

A detainee is someone who is executed, because we have well documented facts that the majority that are somehow released back into the food chain go back to becoming a threatr to us again...Granted what do they have to lose...So I say why waste the gas getting them back home if all they are going to do is pick up sticks again and be better terrorists???

You seem to want to give these terrorists some justification to exist just because they got caught...I do not agree with you on trying to give them a "just process"...They are not our countrymen, nor should they be afforded any considerations other than the 3 (kosher) hots and a (Egyptian cotton linens) cot, till we are done picking their brains...

These terrorist are part of a coordinated effort that have killed, and will continue to kill our friends and countrymen...That to me is a credible reason for me and anyone else who wants to continue to engage and destroy this threat to support efforts to get those results...

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

It is amazing to me how many people dont get that they are NOT US CITIZENS but

TERRORISTS

Thats the bottome line. They are not an organized military fighting another military but TERRORIST whom have killed INNOCENT civilians!!! They deserve NO rights and have NO rights from the US. Why should we waste taxpayers money in giving them a trial. They dont deserve a trial. They deserve to be hung, shot, electrocuted or anything else you can think of so long as they are executed for commiting the evil acts that they have done.

Allāhu Akbar!!!