Almost had to draw my weapon on some fool tonight-kinda long

[CHLSteve]

If the guy is being violent I wouldn't wait for him to cause serious bodily injury to me or my family.

How much injury can an empty handed man cause to your family while outside of your car?

[lanternlad]

"Yours must be a pretty cool car that you're willing to go to prison after paying $$,$$$ (+/-) in legal fees to protect its finish."

You worry too much. I have been poor. I have been homeless. I have lost everything, and come back from it. I do not fear the future nor what it may bring, as I cannot control it. As long as the safety of my family is assured, I do not care what I lose in gaining that end. If someone is threatening my family, I will stop it. My family is close enough to live together happily in a tent if that is what the future brings, as long as we are together. And regarding the attacker not holding a weapon, a fist IS a deadly weapon. Any UFC fighter or boxer will agree.

[bridge]

These last few posts raise an interesting question: If the road rager is putting a fist through the grill of your F150 and pounding on the hood, are you justified in pulling your gun? While he's not hitting you, he is doing damage to your property and may very well continue his tirade until he gets to the cabin of the car. So, if you do plug him is it considered self defense?

I've got a trophy wife and a 4 year old. I'm not saying I like my car so much I'd kill over the glossy dent-free finish, but someone going off like that, it might scare me enough to think my family is in jeopardy. In this case, in the heat of the moment, I might not be so level-headed as to take a "wait and see" approach.

[JackRR]

I am fairly new CHL (Oct08). I decided not to carry round in chamber until 1Jan09. I now am "ready to go". This post confirms the decision even further. Having to rack the slide and having the guy see it or hear it, or a bystander see/hear the same might have caused a different outcome.

[CHLSteve]

My family is close enough to live together happily in a tent if that is what the future brings, as long as we are together. And regarding the attacker not holding a weapon, a fist IS a deadly weapon. Any UFC fighter or boxer will agree.

You won't be spending much time with your family if you end up in prison for an unjustified shooting, which I have to be honest with you, this sure sounds like to me. Fists beating on your hood, is an entirely different thing than fists beating on your face.

Maybe someone with more knowledge or experience of the law will chime in here on the man attacking the car vs. the man attacking the family/trying to get into the car.

[Oldgringo]

"Yours must be a pretty cool car that you're willing to go to prison after paying $$,$$$ (+/-) in legal fees to protect its finish."

You worry too much. I have been poor. I have been homeless. I have lost everything, and come back from it. I do not fear the future nor what it may bring, as I cannot control it. As long as the safety of my family is assured, I do not care what I lose in gaining that end. If someone is threatening my family, I will stop it. My family is close enough to live together happily in a tent if that is what the future brings, as long as we are together. And regarding the attacker not holding a weapon, a fist IS a deadly weapon. Any UFC fighter or boxer will agree.

Congratulations on your financial recovery.

Y'all wont be together if you're in the slammer AND the rest of your family may not be able to afford a tent after the lawyers get through with you. Do you really want to throw away your sterling recovery from impecunious homelessness just because some dolt is beating on your car with his fist?

BTW, what kind/color/model car is it that I must avoid and where does it normally roam? Is it under a bridge?

[Bunkins]

. And regarding the attacker not holding a weapon, a fist IS a deadly weapon. Any UFC fighter or boxer will agree.

So if my Grandma came up and closed fist hit you square in the mouth, are you going to shoot her? I very seriously doubt a jury will think your life was at risk, unless you had a medical condition where a blow from a 85 yr old woman can kill you. 50-50 chance? I bet it's more like a 1-99% chance for a healthy male. The same hit from a guy twice your size, his fists could be a deadly weapon, but you have to prove he was trying to cause you harm, allowing you to use deadly force to prevent a black eye..

Now if a guy is pounding your head against something, it's deadly force. But by then you may not have the option to draw your gun to defend yourself.. It's very gray, and you better be able to prove your case..

Think about this next time you wonder if you can use force. The law's of physic's, loosely said ( also a loose example, but you'll get the point ), a action results in a equal reaction.. If a guy puts a dent in your fender. Is the reaction to put a round between his eye's? I think not. But if a guy runs at you with a knife, stop the reaction part and be the first to act.. If a guy is beating on your fender and you tell him to stop, and he does and walks away or whatever you cant use deadly force. If he turned around and attacks you, then you can use deadly force ( could be a gray area? ).

I'm a car nut, I take pride in the condition of my vehicles, I also put a lot of money into my vehicles. It's not worth a life though. It's worth defending, but not with deadly force unless the situation changes to me being the one thats getting attacked..

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

to you. I think that you did a great job and handled it just right. End result is that everyone is alive and no shots were fired. Thats a good day in my book.

[03Lightningrocks]

That is the boundary I have set. If he was trying to damage my car or gain entry in any way, it's go time. But that's me. I consider my car the same as my home when I'm out in it, and I have no compunctions about using force on someone trying to damage it or gain entry to it. Its legal to stop someone from stealing or damaging your property, and its legal to defend yourself. I don't know whats going through his mind as he's pounding on my hood. Is he going to go away? Is he going to get bolder and try to get in somehow? Who knows? But I'm not speaking through my hat in any case. This boundary line worked well when a creep tried to get into my wife's car at a stop sign in Rice Village. He grabbed the door, she grabbed her snubbie, and put the CTC laser right on his nose. Luckily, he ran off before she could fire. It happens just that fast.

If you ever actually shoot someone who pounds on the hood of your car, you WILL end up in jail. That would show em. Yeah...."ain't nobody gonna touch my ride and get away with it"...

[KD5NRH]

Maybe someone with more knowledge or experience of the law will chime in here on the man attacking the car vs. the man attacking the family/trying to get into the car.

Well, if it's nighttime, you've got criminal mischief during the night as justification.

Depending on how much damage he's doing, you could argue that he's trying to disable the vehicle to trap you there, but either way, if I'm not already blocked in, I'd prefer to use the nice big car rather than little-bitty bullets.

[Fangs]

Wouldn't using your car be just as dangerous (legally) for you?

I am really interested on the whole protecting property thing though. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I think this falls in closely enough that it can be answered along with the "protecting your car/other property" thing:

I was recently in a bar (obviously not carrying) and a guy asked if he could see my phone. It's a common request, so I thought nothing of it and showed it to him. He put his ciggerette out on it, melting the plastic screen a little. He laughed and thought it was funny.

No one else noticed it happening, his friends acted like I was being belligerent when I asked him if he was planning on replacing the damaged phone, and when other people became involved he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about. Now I know from personal experience that a LEO would tell me that there's not enough evidence for a case. I thought about pounding his face in, but I've never started a fight even though I have a pretty decent martial arts background, I know that I don't want to risk my CHL over a stupid phone. The guy was just being a drunk jerk, but I hated having to stand there with him telling me to "walk off" after he did that to my phone. So yeah, I did just that and walked off.

Is there anything I could have done to right that wrong legally? Is it the law-abiding citizen's lot in life to bend over and take it in situations like this? I have to go replace my phone soon, every time I look at the screen it just makes me mad all over again.

[CHLSteve]

Wow, Fangs that is quite a bit of restraint you showed. I don't know what I would have done in that situation, but I don't go to bars either. ;)

[03Lightningrocks]

Wow, Fangs that is quite a bit of restraint you showed. I don't know what I would have done in that situation, but I don't go to bars either. ;)

Yeah...I don't even know you and I want to pound the guy. I may have been looking at some jail time over that one. I love being served drinks in glasses. It gives me a weapon to shove into a bar bullies face.

[seamusTX]

Is there anything I could have done to right that wrong legally? Is it the law-abiding citizen's lot in life to bend over and take it in situations like this?

There's not much you can do. Technically you could sue the guy, but it's not worth it for the cost of a cell phone faceplate, or even an entire cell phone.

Tolerating a certain level of rude behavior is the price of civilization. If every offense is met with an equal level of retaliation, you quickly get to Gandhi's "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

Of course, everyone has to draw the line somewhere.

- Jim

[Oldgringo]

Is there anything I could have done to right that wrong legally? Is it the law-abiding citizen's lot in life to bend over and take it in situations like this?

There's not much you can do. Technically you could sue the guy, but it's not worth it for the cost of a cell phone faceplate, or even an entire cell phone.

Tolerating a certain level of rude behavior is the price of civilization. If every offense is met with an equal level of retaliation, you quickly get to Gandhi's "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

Of course, everyone has to draw the line somewhere.

- Jim

Well Fang 'ol buddy, there is something you can do. You can find a bar with a higher level of clientele for your future R & R exercises - perhaps a smoke free establishment?