Texas Firefighters

[redhawk]

I am looking at sending my representitives a letter asking for an exemption for emergency workers to carry while on duty into forbidden places. The purpose of this is that as emergency workers we are called into places where we might not be safe and then turn around and make a call to a nursing home. We have no place to lock up our handgun and you can not show your handgun getting it from concealment into a safe. I am looking for support from others to also write their representives. Also I would welcome others views on the possibility of this passing.

* The city has said that it will not go against any state law allowing us to carry anywhere we are lawfully able to. So all we need is the state saying that we can carry in the forbidden places.

[fire128]

I am having a hard time understanding what it is you are asking. You imply that as a firefighter you are carrying on duty and you want an exemption from carrying in forbidden areas. I understand as a firefighter one can get into some questionable situations, but the need to carry on duty is for law enforcement not firefighters. If your scene is unsafe then wait for police back up. I carry everyday, except on duty. Been putting the wet stuff on the red stuff for over 20 yrs, and have been involved in EMS for the last 18. I Let the cops do their job and I do mine, besides I really dont want to be carrying when I'm in a rip roaring structure fire.

[hirundo82]

I'm not currently involved in emergency services, but I've often thought it would be a good idea for on-duty fire and EMS personnel with a valid CHL to be exempt from the list of off-limits places. It does create significant issues in terms of securing your weapon when responding to calls at places which are statutorily off-limits.

Re: fire128's mention of the "need" to carry on duty--most emergency services personnel are more likely to be involved in hairy situations when on duty than when off, and nobody on this forum would support the notion that someone has to show need to carry a weapon. And while I agree that the police should be the ones to secure an unsafe scene, how many times have you arrived at a call that doesn't sound unsafe at all and it is something completely different?

[ninjamedic2293]

3 Weeks ago my partner and I had a butcher knife pulled on us by a psych pt from under her bed in what was thought to be a secure scene without law enforcement presence. Only my partners quick reaction prevented us or anyone else from being seriously injured or killed, and its certainly not the first time. It is not remotely uncommon to be assaulted by patients and bystanders. I find myself in much more dangerous situations on a routine basis while on duty than off. We have had ambulances hijacked at gun point, and paramedics confronted by quickly escalating mobs in situations they could not prevent. We are issued ballistic vests and told to let the cops deal with violent people. (A lot of politicians think the 2nd amendment doesn't apply in todays world because we have cops to protect us remember? If you are pumping gas and someone tries to carjack you with your daughter in the car you should hang back, wait for police to back you up, and let the cops secure the situation for you right?) We are disarmed at threat of termination in government buildings where our employers cannot legally prevent the general public from carrying concealed weapons. Even if we were allowed to carry at work, the practical issues of frequently responding to "prohibited places" and those places properly displaying 30.06 signs would prevent any responders in the field from carrying. Fire128 brought up the concern of securing firearms in situations that you would not carry them such as when "bunking out" in your turnout gear for a fire. It is no different than securing any of your other pieces of property or narcotics etc. place it in a lockbox in the truck. I believe (and I know most people will disagree with me since I represent only a very small portion of us who are first responders, and don't even speak for all first responders) that we MUST pass legislation allowing properly licensed first responders to carry firearms (concealed or open) anywhere a LEO can during the course of their duties. This is no different than allowing a properly licensed private security guard to carry in he course of their duties. Hell make them attend a 40 hour class similar to peace officers even I dont care but we need some sort of solution. Our first responders undergo even more in depth background checks than a standard CHL holder including psychological evaluations in many cases just like peace officers. As a firefighter, paramedic, HazMat tech, and CBRNE specialist assigned to provide medical support to the bomb squad and CBRNE strike teams it frustrates me that I am somehow less deserving of the right to protect myself than the general public.

[boomerang]

The real answer is to get rid of those restrictions for everyone with a CHL.

[anygunanywhere]

I understand your frustration and concern.

Breaking the issue down to basics, you want to carry at work and your employer does not allow it. True, you do go to bad places but bad people go to someone's place of employment every day too.

How is your situation different from anyone else's situation where employers forbid carry at work?

If firefighters and EMS need to pack at work then so do everyone else.

BTW I was a volunteer firefighter and paramedic. I was chief of a volunteer EMS agency.

I have been assaulted by patients too.

Anygunanywhere

[jbirds1210]

One solution to your problem is to put yourself through a police academy and have the Fire Marshalls office hold your commission. One can never be over qualified It's all about how bad you want it.

I know a bunch of peace officer/firefighters and have yet to see one with a holster strapped on to their bunker gear!

Jason

[tallmike]

I understand your frustration and concern.

Breaking the issue down to basics, you want to carry at work and your employer does not allow it. True, you do go to bad places but bad people go to someone's place of employment every day too.

How is your situation different from anyone else's situation where employers forbid carry at work?

If firefighters and EMS need to pack at work then so do everyone else.

BTW I was a volunteer firefighter and paramedic. I was chief of a volunteer EMS agency.

I have been assaulted by patients too.

Anygunanywhere

I dont think it is so much a concern with the employer not allowing it as the law not allowing it in certain places you may have to respond to. Im sure that while you were volunteering you responded once or twice to a school or correctional facility. You cant disarm or you will lose your job, but you cant go in or you will go to jail.

The only choice left is not to carry at all while you are working. How many of us think thats the best plan?

[anygunanywhere]

I understand your frustration and concern.

Breaking the issue down to basics, you want to carry at work and your employer does not allow it. True, you do go to bad places but bad people go to someone's place of employment every day too.

How is your situation different from anyone else's situation where employers forbid carry at work?

If firefighters and EMS need to pack at work then so do everyone else.

BTW I was a volunteer firefighter and paramedic. I was chief of a volunteer EMS agency.

I have been assaulted by patients too.

Anygunanywhere

I dont think it is so much a concern with the employer not allowing it as the law not allowing it in certain places you may have to respond to. Im sure that while you were volunteering you responded once or twice to a school or correctional facility. You cant disarm or you will lose your job, but you cant go in or you will go to jail.

The only choice left is not to carry at all while you are working. How many of us think thats the best plan?

True.

My point in breaking it down is that lots of us would like to do the same thing - carry at work whether we be white collar office, blue collar skilled labor, firefighters, EMS, really any occupation.

Having to certify as a LEO is a viable alternative for some but not for the vast majority of people.

We all should be allowed to carry anywhere LEO can carry and should be allowed to carry on the job to protect ourselves - within reason. I work in the refining and industrial gas sector and there are necessary rules that would prohibit carry of a firearm.

Anygunanywhere

[ninjamedic2293]

I just don't realistically believe that we will ever see private employers required to allow concealed carry by their employees. Texas is just to much about employer rights. But I see local governments as an entirely different situation and maybe thats because I work for one and am selfish and want to carry but there are reasons local governments are prohibited from preventing concealed carry by the general public. Restrictions on carry should go away for everyone not just first responders, but I feel that local governments should be legally prohibited from preventing their employees from carrying at work. And I am not talking about just firefighters or paramedics because they are somehow special, I am talking about all public employees, from sanitation engineers to the secretaries at city hall, they all have a right to carry and a GOVERNMENT employer shouldn't have the ability to restrict that just like they cant prevent your from carrying when you walk into the DMV or fire station.

As far as becoming a peace officer I am actually going to the BPOC this year to become a certified peace officer because I would like to do arson investigation. We currently have 7 paramedics who are also certified LEO's and work at various cities and counties near their homes part time and if they are found to have a firearm in their vehicle in a city parking lot, or in a city building, or on their person they will be FIRED just like the rest of us.

[jbirds1210]

As far as becoming a peace officer I am actually going to the BPOC this year to become a certified peace officer because I would like to do arson investigation. We currently have 7 paramedics who are also certified LEO's and work at various cities and counties near their homes part time and if they are found to have a firearm in their vehicle in a city parking lot, or in a city building, or on their person they will be FIRED just like the rest of us.

Have fun in the academy....be ready to study.

Jason

[ninjamedic2293]

Just like fire and paramedic school :)

[jbirds1210]

Just like fire and paramedic school :)

and Ninja training.

[ninjamedic2293]

Nothing is as hard as ninja training . . . Chuck Norris washed out of ninja training.

[mr surveyor]

Nothing is as hard as ninja training . . . Chuck Norris washed out of ninja training.

BLASPHEMY