The NRA.....lets talk!

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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#196

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

mr.72 wrote:I don't really fault the NRA for their current image problem. I don't think they can change it, not reasonably anyway. The problem is that historically, the NRA has not been focused on RKBA. So there is a very old image of the NRA that still endures, which clouds the issue of RKBA.

I think it's the NRA that's sitting on the fence. They are divided because they have multiple goals that are related but nevertheless separate. So the sportsmen NRA members may not really support the RKBA and the 2A guys might not care about hunting. It would be better to split the organization into the old NRA, promoting shooting safety, hunter education, marksmanship etc., and some new organization with a clearly defined goal of only defending the RKBA, without the NRA's name attached.

That's my opinion as an outsider.
The NRA doesn't have an image problem, except with a very small percentage of gun owners who choose not to join for one reason or another. The recent Zogby polls prove that beyond a doubt. Even though some members may not support all aspects of the Second Amendment, as long as they are members and contribute money, then the organization will continue to be the strongest, most powerful civil rights lobby in the world.

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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#197

Post by mr.72 »

Charles L. Cotton wrote: The NRA doesn't have an image problem, except with a very small percentage of gun owners who choose not to join for one reason or another. The recent Zogby polls prove that beyond a doubt. Even though some members may not support all aspects of the Second Amendment, as long as they are members and contribute money, then the organization will continue to be the strongest, most powerful civil rights lobby in the world.

Chas.

Charles, I am very interested in this Zogby poll. I tried to google it and couldn't find anything like this. I guess I am looking for the wrong thing.

As far as a "very small percentage of gun owners who choose not to join for one reason or another", well I read one statistic that suggests there are 40-80 million gun owners in the USA, and only 4 million or so of them are members of the NRA. Are these the right numbers? If so then it suggests that 90-95% of gun owners have chosen not to join for one reason or another. I don't have any idea what those reasons might be, but I think that if it is true that the NRA is only attracting 10% of gun owners to join, that represents a great opportunity for the NRA to grow, or for another organization to fill the void.
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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#198

Post by WildBill »

mr.72 wrote:As far as a "very small percentage of gun owners who choose not to join for one reason or another", well I read one statistic that suggests there are 40-80 million gun owners in the USA, and only 4 million or so of them are members of the NRA. Are these the right numbers? If so then it suggests that 90-95% of gun owners have chosen not to join for one reason or another. I don't have any idea what those reasons might be, but I think that if it is true that the NRA is only attracting 10% of gun owners to join, that represents a great opportunity for the NRA to grow, or for another organization to fill the void.
Ask yourself the same question about why people don't vote, or why only 2.5% of the adult Texas population gets a CHL. There are many reasons or excuses for both.

I suspect that the main reason is apathy and laziness, but a big reason is also time and money priorities. Everybody is busy and juggling work, school, church, and family committments can be difficult. Most people have to live on a budget so they have to prioritize their expenses too.

During recent NRA Life membership drives the question most frequently asked by the people who decided not to join was: "what do I get for my $XXX." Nobody ever told me that they didn't want to join because they had a problem with the mission, politics or "image" of the NRA.

A rhetorical question - How large would the NRA membership grow if it were free to join?
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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#199

Post by seamusTX »

That's not quite a rhetorical question.

The NRA has commissioned surveys that show that approximately 12 million people identify themselves as NRA members. The actual membership is 4 million.

The rest may have been a member at one time, or in some other way think that they are, or tell the questioner what they think they should (kind of like church attendance or dental hygiene).

That 12 million is probably what NRA membership would be if it were free or you could join by a one-time checkoff, like voter registration.

The rest of firearms owners who are not members think that there is no threat to the RKBA, or at least not to their preferred sport, such as skeet or hunting.

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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#200

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WildBill wrote: During recent NRA Life membership drives the question most frequently asked by the people who decided not to join was: "what do I get for my $XXX." Nobody ever told me that they didn't want to join because they had a problem with the mission, politics or "image" of the NRA.
Actually, I think one way to interpret that answer is that many people don't know what the mission, politics, or image of the NRA is to begin with. If they did, then they would not question what they "get" for their fee, they would know that they are contributing to a political organization.

BTW to make it clear, I don't have a problem with the NRA's mission or politics really. I kind of think of it like when Garth Brooks tried to make a rock record. He changed his name but everyone still knew it was Garth Brooks and whether the record was any good or not was a moot point... most of the potential audience of any rock record didn't even consider listening to it once they heard it was really Garth Brooks. Likewise I think that even though the NRA may be doing the world's greatest possible job at supporting RKBA legislation, recovery of our rights, etc., many people don't bother even checking into that because they think NRA = hunters.

In the case that I might be right, at least for part of the people (I know it applied to me a year ago before I was a gun owner), then even if NRA membership were free, many gun owners wouldn't join because they are not hunters and they equate the NRA with hunters.

I wonder what percentage of NRA members are made up by hunters?

Why is it hard to find accurate statistics like this about NRA members? I'm pretty good at doing internet research but I have not been able to uncover what should be fairly easy-to-find answers regarding the NRA.
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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#201

Post by mr.72 »

seamusTX wrote: The rest of firearms owners who are not members think that there is no threat to the RKBA, or at least not to their preferred sport, such as skeet or hunting.
... or, maybe at least some of them don't realize that the NRA is active in protecting their RKBA ...
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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#202

Post by seamusTX »

I don't that's possible.

The Bradys, Schumers, Kennedys, etc., constantly criticize the NRA for blocking their "common-sense gun control" proposals and promoting such "lunacy" as concealed carry and castle doctrine.

If you perform a Google search for "National Rifle Association," and then scroll down past the sites that are actually run by the NRA, you start to find media and bloggers characterizing the NRA as somewhere between the Tobacco Institute and NAMBLA on the scale of evil, vile, and odious.

I doubt that most people know the NRA is anything else but a lobbying group.

Before I woke up and started caring (which, for the record, was in 2001), I didn't know anything different. No NRA-sponsored activities are held in my area. I never heard anything about the NRA that was not in public media such as television news or newspapers.

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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#203

Post by KBCraig »

I am a member, and I support the NRA, and I know that sometimes my criticisms sound like I'm bashing the organization.

I'm not. I want the organization to grow.

But one of my biggest gripes is the excessive hyperbole that gets tossed about. It's mostly on the "preaching to the choir" stuff, but non-members see NRA publications and ads too. If they're off-putting to me, a member, how are they perceived by people on the borderline?

My father had been a member most of his adult life, but he dropped his membership in the early '80s over the tenor of NRA's political "warnings".

For a recent example, NRA press releases about the national park rule change, claimed that NRA "took the lead" in getting the rules changed. Now, NRA did let people know about the public comment period, but I don't believe they were involved until the process was already underway. The VCDL initiated the request to change the rules, and it took them a couple of tries and some political clout to get things rolling.

When even "true believer" members know they have to discount a certain amount of NRA publicity, it hurts credibility.
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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#204

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mr.72 wrote:
WildBill wrote: During recent NRA Life membership drives the question most frequently asked by the people who decided not to join was: "what do I get for my $XXX." Nobody ever told me that they didn't want to join because they had a problem with the mission, politics or "image" of the NRA.
Actually, I think one way to interpret that answer is that many people don't know what the mission, politics, or image of the NRA is to begin with. If they did, then they would not question what they "get" for their fee, they would know that they are contributing to a political organization.
You can interpret something any way you want so that it appears to support your position.
BTW to make it clear, I don't have a problem with the NRA's mission or politics really. Likewise I think that even though the NRA may be doing the world's greatest possible job at supporting RKBA legislation, recovery of our rights, etc., many people don't bother even checking into that because they think NRA = hunters.

I wonder what percentage of NRA members are made up by hunters?
Since you don't have a problem with the NRA's mission or politics, maybe you have a problem with hunters?
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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#205

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

KBCraig wrote:I am a member, and I support the NRA, and I know that sometimes my criticisms sound like I'm bashing the organization.

I'm not. I want the organization to grow.

But one of my biggest gripes is the excessive hyperbole that gets tossed about. It's mostly on the "preaching to the choir" stuff, but non-members see NRA publications and ads too. If they're off-putting to me, a member, how are they perceived by people on the borderline?

My father had been a member most of his adult life, but he dropped his membership in the early '80s over the tenor of NRA's political "warnings".

For a recent example, NRA press releases about the national park rule change, claimed that NRA "took the lead" in getting the rules changed. Now, NRA did let people know about the public comment period, but I don't believe they were involved until the process was already underway. The VCDL initiated the request to change the rules, and it took them a couple of tries and some political clout to get things rolling.

When even "true believer" members know they have to discount a certain amount of NRA publicity, it hurts credibility.
The NRA had a deal with the Interior Dept. to change the rules. Somehow, VCDL got word of it and started their nationwide petition to change the rules. The deal was already done and they wanted to take credit for what the NRA had done. Interior told us the deal was off because they "weren't about to let those people" get any credit for it and "encourage them to keep up their" tactics. At that point, the NRA started building support in the Senate and ultimately got 47 Senators to sign the letter asking for a change.

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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#206

Post by nitrogen »

See, this also goes to something else about the NRA I think they seriously need help with:

Letting people know just what's up!

Instead of just asking members to just comment, it might be helpful if they said:
"We're working with senators X, Y, and Z, and people within the dept of interior to get ths rule changed, but we need your help!"

That also leads to another thing. The NRA needs to get the word out there better than they do today. It seems that I'll find out about happenings on "the blogs", and then hear something from the NRA a week later. It'd be really helpful for existing members, as well as new members if we knew what the heck you were working on. That's one of the reasons I let my membership lapse for a while; I had no idea what you all were doing on my behalf.

Maybe this info is out there, but it needs to be easier to find, and a lot more "in your face" for the members, in my opinion.
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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#207

Post by seamusTX »

I get e-mail from the NRA almost every day (though much of it is promoting endorsed products).

It seems they let you know (a) when they need letter-writing, votes, or money, or (b) they accomplished something.

Certain issues are better handled confidentially to avoid stirring up opposition.

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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#208

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

mr.72 wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote: The NRA doesn't have an image problem, except with a very small percentage of gun owners who choose not to join for one reason or another. The recent Zogby polls prove that beyond a doubt. Even though some members may not support all aspects of the Second Amendment, as long as they are members and contribute money, then the organization will continue to be the strongest, most powerful civil rights lobby in the world.

Chas.

Charles, I am very interested in this Zogby poll. I tried to google it and couldn't find anything like this. I guess I am looking for the wrong thing.

As far as a "very small percentage of gun owners who choose not to join for one reason or another", well I read one statistic that suggests there are 40-80 million gun owners in the USA, and only 4 million or so of them are members of the NRA. Are these the right numbers? If so then it suggests that 90-95% of gun owners have chosen not to join for one reason or another. I don't have any idea what those reasons might be, but I think that if it is true that the NRA is only attracting 10% of gun owners to join, that represents a great opportunity for the NRA to grow, or for another organization to fill the void.
Once a year, Zogby does their "big" poll that covers all kinds of topics. The poll I'm talking about was the 2007 "big" poll; I'm not sure if Zogby did one this year, since it was a major Presidential election year. He may have and I just didn't see it. The subject matter of the polls changes each year, although there are some topics that appear in almost every poll. The question that sticks in my mind was the response to the question "Do you agree with the NRA" and the responses "All the time" and "Most of the time" made up something around 70% of the responses. I'll see if I can get a copy from NRA HQ and post them here.

The estimates of gun owners is somewhere around 80 million, but that's grossly low. As recently as 25 years ago, the estimates were around 125 to 150 million and I don't think gun ownership has gone down. I think it's more likely that people today just won't say "yes" to a question about gun ownership.

Why have only 4 million of those 100+ million gun owners joined the NRA? My guess is that many gun owners presume the NRA is so big and powerful that there is no need or benefit in them joining. Also, let's face it, many people are willing to let the proverbial "other guy" do it and simply don't take the time to join. As Wildbill said, money is probably a reason some people don't join, but I suspect that may be more of an excuse than a legitimate reason for most people. I'm sure there are some people who can't afford to join, but I suspect they are few in number.

The NRA has put a lot of effort and money into changing the public perception of our organization and the effort has been successful. Even people who don't own guns look to the NRA as the savior of the Second Amendment, but since they haven't decided to get a gun (yet), they don't tend to join the NRA. The point I find ironic is that the two groups of people that have a bad image of the NRA are committed anti-gunners like the Brady Campaign, Schumer, Boxer, etc. and a small group of ardent supporters of the Second Amendment who believe the NRA compromises on the Second Amendment. The latter group tend to like the in-your-face approach to legislation erroneously believing that if they are loud enough, they can bully legislatures into passing our bills and killing anti-gun bills. I understand the attraction this approach has for some people, I sometimes feel that way myself, but the scenarios where this tactic works are few and far between. The NRA uses this tactic more often than most people realize, but it does so behind closed doors not publicly. Doing it publicly is counterproductive in most situations and even when it works, it tends to make enemies just waiting for the chance to get even.

Chas.

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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#209

Post by Daltex1 »

I think the NRA should have their own TV channel. It would be great to get news from them this way and would be an easy way to keep up with current political issues. I am sure they would have plenty of people that would want to stick their commercials on this channel, not to mention having the ability to get new members aboard. They could have all sorts of firearms segments and I just think it would be a good idea.
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Re: The NRA.....lets talk!

#210

Post by seamusTX »

The NRA has an Internet "TV channel": http://www.nranews.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

About a quarter of U.S. homes have broadband Internet access, so this has the potential to reach a large audience.

I don't know what it takes to get on cable TV. Maybe it's too expensive.

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