The NRA.....lets talk!

[Keith B]

So, I am getting the message: you are a fool who lacks common sense if you do not swallow the idea that the NRA is the only possible hope for the defense of the 2A in America, is that it?

Good thing they had the NRA when the Constitution was drafted then. Free Americans, on their own, could not possibly support their own rights without the precious NRA, could they?

Those couple of posts in this thread added another reason for me to not join the NRA. Maybe it's NRA members' attitudes that are preventing others from joining. Just a thought.

IMO, the only way anyone gets the real attention of Congress or other law making groups is by a collective voice. The best (and most cost effective) way we have to get that voice is to join a group that has a pathway into the law makers and will lobby for us as a whole. Now, while you may not agree with all of the views or ideals of the NRA or TSRA, it is important too help support them.

I think you will agree that the Brady Bunch has a very big hook into those that make the laws. How many organizations, other than the NRA, do you hear the Brady's fighting against? To me, that means the NRA has that voice and the Brady's are concerned about it. I am going to do what I can to help support a group that is that much of a thorn in the Brady's side!

[mr.72]

If the NRA didn't exist, then there would be some other organization which would carry the flag. The reason some other organization with a more singular purpose to defend the RKBA has not emerged is because the NRA is the "face" of the RKBA movement.

If the NRA ceased to exist, all of the current NRA members and supporters of the RKBA would not suddenly decide to join the Bradys. The people would continue to support RKBA legislation and hold their politicians to account.

Actually I think without the NRA, the Bradys would lose a lot of their raison d'etre. One hand clapping...

[Keith B]

If the NRA didn't exist, then there would be some other organization which would carry the flag. The reason some other organization with a more singular purpose to defend the RKBA has not emerged is because the NRA is the "face" of the RKBA movement.

If the NRA ceased to exist, all of the current NRA members and supporters of the RKBA would not suddenly decide to join the Bradys. The people would continue to support RKBA legislation and hold their politicians to account.

Actually I think without the NRA, the Bradys would lose a lot of their raison d'etre. One hand clapping...

But, the NRA DOES exist, and that is the best voice we have today. If it didn't exist, then I would support that other theoretical bargaining group if they had the voice. Until that time, I will support the one that can speak for me the best (AKA the NRA and TSRA.)

And, if the NRA or some other support group for RKBA didn't exist, the Brady's would be able to push anything easily past Congress and the law makers without any opposing view and voice. That would be the death of us.

[mr.72]

But, the NRA DOES exist, and that is the best voice we have today. If it didn't exist, then I would support that other theoretical bargaining group if they had the voice.

Well there is no chance of that theoretical other group ever emerging as long as we continue to support the existence of the NRA! That's my whole point!

[Keith B]

But, the NRA DOES exist, and that is the best voice we have today. If it didn't exist, then I would support that other theoretical bargaining group if they had the voice.

Well there is no chance of that theoretical other group ever emerging as long as we continue to support the existence of the NRA! That's my whole point!

There is no reason you can't support more than one group if another one shows promise. As an analogy, look at it like insurance: You need to make sure you have coverage, until a company comes along with better coverage for the money. At that time you can get a policy with the new company, but don't let your initial policy lapse until the other coverage takes affect or sure as shootin' you will need it when you don't have it.

[flintknapper]

So, I am getting the message: you are a fool who lacks common sense if you do not swallow the idea that the NRA is the only possible hope for the defense of the 2A in America, is that it?

No Sir, you are not getting the "message". You are getting defensive (and perhaps feel insulted)...but you are not getting the message. At a time when we are most threatened with a liberal political machine...and certain gun rights may teeter in the balance, you remain comfortable disassembling the largest most effective pro-gun organization we have! So yeah, that lacks common sense IMO.

Good thing they had the NRA when the Constitution was drafted then. Free Americans, on their own, could not possibly support their own rights without the precious NRA, could they?

News Flash ( for those who haven't been keeping up): Times have changed!

Those couple of posts in this thread added another reason for me to not join the NRA.

It is your privilege to have as many as you like, but I doubt these crowded your others off the page.

One the purposes for this thread is to discover, discuss and address any issues that dissenter's may have.
I can see from your posts...that you feel the NRA is not "salvageable" to your way of thinking. Others of us feel that while there are areas that need improvement....the organization as a whole is productive and useful. You have every right to disagree...and I respect your opinions, but I do wish you would offer some feasible alternative to the NRA. Otherwise, it just sounds like "griping", which once done...gets kind of stale with each "new" layer.

What other organization(s) do you propose could be put in place (in a short amount of time, with the same or greater membership, with the experience of the NRA, the political connections, the revenues, etc)?

Maybe it's NRA members' attitudes that are preventing others from joining. Just a thought.

Or maybe the answer is closer to home. Also, just a thought.

[RiverRat]

Keith B wrote:
But, the NRA DOES exist, and that is the best voice we have today. If it didn't exist, then I would support that other theoretical bargaining group if they had the voice.

In a perfect world all political decisions and protections would NOT be based on "money and lawyers". United in an NRA we can pool our modest resources and afford lawyers to question and litigate for us collectively. Our representative form of government is much more responsive to collective groups with lawyers and lobbyists, than to individuals with none. Read the form reply from your congressman and see if it even relates to your concerns the next time you write them.

It's the same with dealing with the FCC by the ARRL (American Radio Relay League), etc, etc. Collective resources are superior to none.

[mr.72]

Or maybe the answer is closer to home. Also, just a thought.

Right, flint.

The reason potential new members are not joining is their attitudes.

That will certainly help the NRA gain support.

[anygunanywhere]

What other organization(s) do you propose could be put in place (in a short amount of time, with the same or greater membership, with the experience of the NRA, the political connections, the revenues, etc)?

Mr.72 Rifle Association?

Anygunanywhere

[mr.72]

I don't know much about other organizations. I thought this thread was about the NRA?

Maybe the SAF?

[flintknapper]

Or maybe the answer is closer to home. Also, just a thought.

Right, flint.

The reason potential new members are not joining is their attitudes.

That will certainly help the NRA gain support.

Just saying......I think the NRA tries to reach as many folks as possible, but they can't coddle and caress everyone that gets offended by every little thing.

[mr.72]

Just saying......I think the NRA tries to reach as many folks as possible, but they can't coddle and caress everyone that gets offended by every little thing.

I think it's quite clear you are responding to my posts without having read them.

The fact that the NRA has made a focal point about advocating shooting sports and hunting is no "little thing".

And it's not about being offended. It is individual NRA members who are succeeding at offending newcomers, to their own detriment I might add. The organization itself is just not as effective, IMHO, as an organization would be if they didn't have the NRA's baggage and history standing in the way and coloring public opinion.

You are on my ignore list and I promise I won't make the mistake of displaying your posts again, so my conversation with you has ended.

[flintknapper]

Just saying......I think the NRA tries to reach as many folks as possible, but they can't coddle and caress everyone that gets offended by every little thing.

I think it's quite clear you are responding to my posts without having read them.
The fact that the NRA has made a focal point about advocating shooting sports and hunting is no "little thing".

And it's not about being offended. It is individual NRA members who are succeeding at offending newcomers, to their own detriment I might add. The organization itself is just not as effective, IMHO, as an organization would be if they didn't have the NRA's baggage and history standing in the way and coloring public opinion.

You are on my ignore list and I promise I won't make the mistake of displaying your posts again, so my conversation with you has ended.

Actually, I have read everyone of them (and your blog as well).


And you just proved that it IS about being "offended". I think the best way for you to effect the changes you want to see in the NRA... would be to join the organization...voice your opinion..and change it from within.

I'm sensing though.....that no amount of concession would be enough. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Liberty]

Listening to some episodes of NRANews.com, I'd be lead to believe that if I don't believe in much of the non-gun related platform of the Republican party, the NRA doesn't want me as a member. Luckelly, I don't care, even if it WAS the case.

This is some of what I was talking about earlier. NRANews.com is a good show, but talking about how stupid liberals are for non-gun related things can only alienate. The NRA shouldn't be an echo chamber; it should be trying to draw more people in.

Hey we all enjoy preaching to choir rather than doing the hard work of evangelistic reach out programs. We who stand to the right like getting all excited when over the "my cold dead hands" speech" it makes us feel good and justified. Obama worked this technique as a master. The RKBA is a civil liberties issues. Whether we are leftist rightist or libertarian the RKBA should be a part of our basic belief system. The problem is that the left has moved past any deep thinking into touchy feely politics. Guns make them uncomfortable. The NRA has to present their argument in that the old, the weak and the persecuted have every right to defend themselves as the young and strong. RKBA is every bit as much about minority right or Woman rights or gay rights or handicapped rights or elderly rights.

We can be very effective if we present ourselves this way. The Automobile carry bill was an amazing bit of politics. We took a 150 year old arguement that looked like it could never be settled joined forces with the ACLU and made history. Joining forces with those who are too the left isn't about comprimise, but framing our battles to be acceptable to the widest audience. Its OK we still be the angry white male conservative. I want every woman, minority, acadamian, gay person and civil rights leader to want the same goals as I. When we all see eye to eye, then things happen.

[seamusTX]

The NRA does this to some extent. They have women's programs like Refuse to Be a Victim (which requires volunteers to run it). They have sympathetic spokeswomen like Marion Hammer. The NRA just doesn't have the resources to reach a wide audience.

The opposition gets it free. The media and especially television are constantly broadcasting "shocking news" about criminal violence committed with firearms and tin-foil-hat kooks. They don't have much to say about successful self-defense incidents.

BTW, the "left" is not one set of people with the same beliefs. There is an anti-RKBA faction, of course; but the really far left includes groups like the Weatherman and Black Panthers.

- Jim