Who's for less Prohibited places?

[mr.72]

Well he said a "national no-carry law".

It was in the midst of an entire quote wherein he demonstrates his ignorance of the issues. You can read the quote on my blog. It is hard to nail down exactly what his plans are since he seemed to adjust his statements on the issue according to the makeup of his audience over the past 12 years while he has been under the microscope of politics.

[seamusTX]

Where are the off-topic police when you need them?

- Jim

[mr.72]

Where are the off-topic police when you need them?

- Jim

Sorry, Jim. Back on topic.

[seamusTX]

Thanks.

- Jim

[artx]

I am also in the group that feels if we can't immediately remove some of the prohibited places, let's lower the penalty. Instead of criminal trespass, make violation a $25 fine or some idea.

I really like Missouri's law below - from handgunlaw.us - listing of 'off limits' locations.

First, it spells out places off limits, then at the end of the statute says you only have to leave if asked.

The penalty for not leaving on first offense is $100.

I think this would be a great tack to take in TX - leave the 30.06 signs and the like for now, just make the penalty much much much lower.

Full text:
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000107.HTM


Endorsement does not authorize concealed firearms, where:
(1) Any Police, Sheriff, or Highway Patrol Office or Station,
(2) Within twentyfive
feet of any Polling Place on any Election Day.
(3) Any Correctional Facility.
(4) Any Courthouse or Building used by a Court.
(5) Any Government Meeting including State Legislature.
(6) Government Owned Buildings except Public Housing.
(7) Bars.
(8) Secured parts of Airports.
(9) Prohibited by Federal Law;
(10) All Schools (Including Colleges);
(11) Child Care Facilities.
(12) Casino
(13) Amusement Park.
(14) Any Church
(15) Private Property with 11X14 sign with one inch letters.
(16) Arenas and Stadiums seating over 5,000.
(17)Publicly accessible Hospitals.
Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the
firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises; is
applicable to Items 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 above.
Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions 1) to (17) of subsection 20 of
this section by any individual who holds concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to this section
shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the
premises.


About the only thing I don't like about MO's CHL law is that it appears you can't ride a bus.

[seamusTX]

First, it spells out places off limits, then at the end of the statute says you only have to leave if asked.

The penalty for not leaving on first offense is $100.

I think this would be a great tack to take in TX - leave the 30.06 signs and the like for now, just make the penalty much much much lower.

I agree completely.

The way that ordinary 30.05 criminal trespass is handled, the offender gets a warning the first time, then is charged on a second offense. Even then, it's a class C misdemeanor.

The penalty is enhanced if the offender is armed or for trespass to places that are not normally accessible by the public.

- Jim

[anygunanywhere]

As I have stated before, a citizen should be allowed to carry anywhere LEO can carry.

A citizen should not have to have a second amendment permission card to carry a firearm concealed or openly.

There should be no prohibited places, least of all any government building. We grant the government all of the power. The government is beholden to us.

Anygunanywhere

[seamusTX]

I agree; but how do we make the legislature see it that way, when employers, chambers of commerce, and various government officials such as DAs, mayors, and police chiefs are arrayed against us?

- Jim

[anygunanywhere]

Jim,

My belief in the total literal meaning of the second amendment should be obvious, but I do have a side that can see reality.

How do we accomplish those goals?

Get the gun owners who are not active off of their collective La-z-boys and get in the fight. This is a fight.

The ones who are in the La-z-boys are going to die from boiling frog syndrome.

All I read about lately are these people scrambling out to buy a gun at inflated prices but how many of them belong to the NRA? TSRA?

This is where the antis beat us, not in emotion, but in activism.

If there are any posters on this board who are not members of the NRA and TSRA they really need to focus on what is truly important in their lives.

Freedom isn't.

Anygunanywhere

[seamusTX]

I can't find the membership number, but IIRC, TSRA has fewer than 100,000 members. There are more than 200,000 CHL holders. We would not have CHLs, castle doctrine, stand your ground, or relief from civil liability if not for the efforts of TSRA and NRA.

TSRA annual membership is $25. You can pay more than that for a box of cartridges.

'Nuff said.

- Jim

[srothstein]

Jim,

Two technical corrections about criminal trespass. The first is that the law says that it is a crime as soon as it is broken. It does not require a warning first. What you have stated is true in practice as most cops will not arrest for the violation until they ask the person to leave. But that is the practice and not the law. I think (can't prove but I really do believe) that 30.06 will be handled the same way by most cops.

The second correction is that in most cases, criminal trespass is a class B, not a class C. It gets enhanced to A if it is a home (habitation) or if a weapon is carried (and I have already said this should be changed to used and not just carried).

[Liberty]

Jim,

My belief in the total literal meaning of the second amendment should be obvious, but I do have a side that can see reality.

How do we accomplish those goals?

Get the gun owners who are not active off of their collective La-z-boys and get in the fight. This is a fight.

The ones who are in the La-z-boys are going to die from boiling frog syndrome.

All I read about lately are these people scrambling out to buy a gun at inflated prices but how many of them belong to the NRA? TSRA?

This is where the antis beat us, not in emotion, but in activism.

If there are any posters on this board who are not members of the NRA and TSRA they really need to focus on what is truly important in their lives.

Freedom isn't.

Anygunanywhere

There are some very good reasons why some folks won't the TSRA or NRA and it starts with their candidate rating list. Joining the TSRA or NRA isn't the only way that one can fight for the NRA. The NRA and TSRA really have a problem with supporting the only true anti gun banning political party in America. While they continue to show disrespect for Libertarians they have Directors like Joquin Jackson telling Texans we don't need to have guns that can carry more than 5 rounds. The NRA and TRSA need to look at why some people are reluctant to join. While I did join the NRA I am told that very little of our money is actually spent on political activism. that most goes to magazines and training and operational costs.. Money might be better spent actually supporting candidates that support our cause.

[bdickens]

You can always opt out of the magazine. That way your whole measly little $25 goes in the kitty.

[anygunanywhere]

There are some very good reasons why some folks won't the TSRA or NRA and it starts with their candidate rating list. Joining the TSRA or NRA isn't the only way that one can fight for the NRA. The NRA and TSRA really have a problem with supporting the only true anti gun banning political party in America. While they continue to show disrespect for Libertarians they have Directors like Joquin Jackson telling Texans we don't need to have guns that can carry more than 5 rounds. The NRA and TRSA need to look at why some people are reluctant to join. While I did join the NRA I am told that very little of our money is actually spent on political activism. that most goes to magazines and training and operational costs.. Money might be better spent actually supporting candidates that support our cause.

Liberty, with all due respect to your position, and I do agree to a point, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Who is your fight with, the NRA or the antis?

You really dislike some of the things about the NRA. If you are not a member, you cannot vote to change things.

Are you going to keep screaming your objections to the NRA and continue to let your rights be eroded?

Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, the NRA has done more to preserve your second amendment rights than ALL other organizations combined.

Anygunanywhere

[Liberty]

There are some very good reasons why some folks won't the TSRA or NRA and it starts with their candidate rating list. Joining the TSRA or NRA isn't the only way that one can fight for the NRA. The NRA and TSRA really have a problem with supporting the only true anti gun banning political party in America. While they continue to show disrespect for Libertarians they have Directors like Joquin Jackson telling Texans we don't need to have guns that can carry more than 5 rounds. The NRA and TRSA need to look at why some people are reluctant to join. While I did join the NRA I am told that very little of our money is actually spent on political activism. that most goes to magazines and training and operational costs.. Money might be better spent actually supporting candidates that support our cause.

Liberty, with all due respect to your position, and I do agree to a point, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Who is your fight with, the NRA or the antis?

You really dislike some of the things about the NRA. If you are not a member, you cannot vote to change things.

Are you going to keep screaming your objections to the NRA and continue to let your rights be eroded?

Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, the NRA has done more to preserve your second amendment rights than ALL other organizations combined.

Anygunanywhere

Freedom isn't just about guns .. its much bigger than that.

My issue though is that there have been implications that those who don't belong to the NRA TSRA are somehow slackers, I kind of resented that. Because I have worked hard for our cause. I don't mean to alam the NRA and TSRa But to point out why some people might shy away from them.. The fact is they have treated Libertarians unfairly. They have treated me personally unfairly.