Interesting article "Christians and Guns"

[quidni]

on The Sight M1911 A-1:

Christians and Guns
by Carlo Stagnaro

August 30, 2002

"Shoot, shoot, shoot," Father Giorgio Giorgi said from the pulpit of his church in Retorbido, near Pavia, Italy, during a sermon about a year ago. These words stirred up trouble, because a Roman Catholic priest has hardly dared to speak in such a way in the last few decades. Yet Father Giorgi merely said that every man, being created in the image of God, has the right to life and thus the right to defend life. "[Confronted by a criminal] I might let him kill me – he added. Indeed, if I killed a bandit, I should presume to send him to Hell, because he’s not in the Grace of God. So it would be better for me to die, because, theoretically, I should always be in the Grace of God, given my job. But the father of a family is not a priest. He has the right, and before it the duty, to defend his wife, his children, and his property."

Perhaps, rather than turning the other cheek, one should close an eye and aim well?

Most ecclesiastical authorities have declined to point out this line of argument; for whatever reason, they have been reading the Holy Bible from a pacifist’s, coward’s, weakling’s point of view. Yet, it should be clear that embracing gun control implies the denial of the basic principle of individual responsibility.

"The problem is not six-shooters; the problem is sinners. Eliminating guns won’t solve that problem.… The proximate (civil) solution to gun-related violence is stiffer (biblical) penalties for harming humans and property – whether by guns, knives, axes, spray paint, or computers. The ultimate solution to gun-related violence is the transformation of individuals by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.... The ironic solution of liberals is to lock up the guns and liberate the criminals after a mere wrist slap," wrote Andrew Sandlin in The Christian Statesman, Vol. 140, No. 1.

In reality, while inviting people to love and mercy, Jesus never said that individuals have no right to defend themselves. Even less did he say they should not defend their feebler brothers when such are in danger. A person might decide to offer no resistance to aggression if he risks only his own life, but he can’t shirk the moral duty to help others. As Jeff Snyder has written, "Although difficult for modern men to fathom, it was once widely believed that life was a gift from God, that to not defend that life when offered violence was to hold God’s gift in contempt, to be a coward and to breach one’s duty to one’s community." (Nation of Cowards, Accurate Press, 2001, page 16.)

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Some of y'all have probably already seen this article. I'm not copying the entirety here because there are a number of cross-references, given as embedded links, in the original text. Lots of interesting info throughout the website.

[mrvmax]

There is nothing wrong with a Christian defending yourself or others. It it were wrong Biblically, no Christian could be in the military or law enforcement.

[longtooth]

+ 1. This one will receive a lot of comment too. I will be in it this evening after work.

[barres]

[35]: And he said to them, "When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing."
[36]: He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.

Even in Jesus's own time, He recognized the need of His followers to protect themselves and others.

[nitrogen]

You guys might also be interested in reading "The Torah and Self Defense"
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/The- ... efense.pdf

While being from a Jewish perspective, in my opinion is applicable to any Christian as well. It's a wonderful meditation on the subject.

One of my favorite new testamant quotes:

Proverbs 25:26
A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well.

[longtooth]

Above verse is probably the best know & most used, but is not the only one. Personal defense is a theme that runs through the whole Bible as well as the Torah & is not only permitted for believers but is required of them. Several w/ factual statement but no exposition. Good reading.
Gen. 14 Abraham defended his family w/ 318 TRAINED servants.
Sampson used the jawbone of an ass because 1st Sam 13:19 there was no smith found throghout all the land of Israel, for the Philistines said, Lest the Hebrews make swords. Disarming the enslaved & oppressed is a little older than Marx, Hittler, or Mussilini (SP).
David is described as a man after God's own heart in Acts 13:22 but he carried a sword & used it well. 1st Sam. 18:7-8.
When Ezra lead the Jews back to Jerusalem to rebuild the Temple & they had no weapons they went by faith. When they arrived and acquired some. They worked with one hand & held a weapon in the other. Neh. 4:16-18. What a picture of home defense.
Prov. 21:31 The horse is prepared for the day of battle but safety is of the Lord. Preparation & training w/ weapons are the tools The Lord uses in the hands of men to secure that safety.
1st Tim. 5:8 If any man provide not for his own house he has denied the faith & is worse than an infidel. This includes protection & defence as sure as it means food, shelter, clothing, hospitalization if available, creature comforts that are possible.
Luke 22:36 is Jesus' validation of the theme that runs through the whole Word.

[nitrogen]

When I last read the whole bible (which was back when I was in high school) it seemed to me that the sermon on the mount delt more with revenge than self defense. I'm curious what the regular Christian interpretation is(The whole "turn the other cheek" thing to me seemed to say, "You don't get to kill or hurt someone just for wronging you." It didn't seem to address actual self defense to me.)

I would always hear the "turn the other cheek" from the sermon on the mount as an argument against self defense, along with the beautitudes. To me, they always seemed to say, "Don't cause trouble. Don't go around messing with people, because it makes you less in the eyes of God." It didn't so much seem to me to say that you should let people threaten your life.

This makes me curious on how most Christians interperet this.

[KBCraig]

One of my favorite new testamant quotes:

Proverbs 25:26

They moved Proverbs to the New Testament???

[longtooth]

Bulls eye Nitrogen. Not a pun but a truth. The summary in simplest form is. No vengence from the Christian. Enduring endurable wrongs w/ restraint prevents escalation & deescalates. (sounds like CHL class & they did not even know it, don't it) Personal defense, family defense, community & national defense are not the subject matter there.

[nitrogen]

One of my favorite new testamant quotes:

Proverbs 25:26

They moved Proverbs to the New Testament???

Aw fnips. I know better when i'm not doped up on cold medicine
I'm stuck at home with a horrible cold and nothing but the Internet and Daytime TV to comfort me.

[longtooth]

Stay on the forum. Nothing on daytime TV for folks w/ character like you. Get well soon.

[GrannyGlock]

My son commented that the original greek interpretation of "meek" as in "the meek shall inherit the earth" came from a word that meant having strength but choosing not to weild it unwisely or indescriminately. In other words meek as humility, not weakness.

To be "meek" because you are powerless is not a virtue; to be humble when you are strong is to acknowledge that the true strength is not from you but from your Creator.

[longtooth]

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject:

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My son commented that the original greek interpretation of "meek" as in "the meek shall inherit the earth" came from a word that meant having strength but choosing not to weild it unwisely or indescriminately. In other words meek as humility, not weakness.

You are right Granny. I tell folks that the Biblical definition of meek is strong enough to be gentle.

edit: Still can't figure out how you folks get those white boxes "NAME wrote" around that stuff.

[barres]

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject:

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My son commented that the original greek interpretation of "meek" as in "the meek shall inherit the earth" came from a word that meant having strength but choosing not to weild it unwisely or indescriminately. In other words meek as humility, not weakness.

You are right Granny. I tell folks that the Biblical definition of meek is strong enough to be gentle.

edit: Still can't figure out how you folks get those white boxes "NAME wrote" around that stuff.

Use the "Quote" button in the top right corner of the post you want to quote.

[racer32]

Here's a link I like to share:
http://www.macro-inc.com/ChristiansAndGuns.htm

Being a Christian does NOT mean being a pacifist. It means that you do not seek vengeance or commit murder.

Luke 22: 35-38, 35He said to them, “When I sent you out without a purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?� They said, “No, not a thing.� 36He said to them, “But now, the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. 37For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was counted among the lawless’; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled.� 38They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.� He replied, “It is enough.�

Jesus sanctioned the carrying of arms by his disciples. Even more telling is the fact that he felt a sword was needed more than the clothes on their backs. Why swords? Because they needed them for self-protection.