Wichita Falls Officer Shot by Homeowner

[Doug.38PR]

When all is said and done. In reality we are all our own policemen. "To protect and serve" is a lie. At least the "protect part is." The police cannot protect you or your property. That is YOUR job. They might be able to catch the criminal who got away. Their pay is to help them solve crimes (investigate and gather evidence that leads to catching and arresting the criminal). BUT we are responsible for policing our own property and our neighbors property (if they desire) regardless of what liberals and "let the police handle it" types think.
Where I come from, if you hear a suspicious noise outside, YOU go to investigate. Shooting at a prowler in the nightime (criminal misschief in the nighttime) is you not taking any chances that this unknown person who obviously doesn't belong there afterdark isn't going to harm you under the concealment of darkness.
Having said all that, this guy should not have shot first and ask questions later. Or in this case, answered questions later (to a grand jury). Look before you leap seems to apply here.

[srothstein]

Well, I have to second all of Excaliber's excellent post about calling the police. It is our job and what we are trained to do. He really hit the nail on the head with people who heard something and did not call and then it turns out to be something major. I cannot count the times I was told by someone that they heard the incident (sometimes a murder) and did not call because they thought it was nothing.

And, while I want you to call the police, I also want to warn you about one type of officer that is getting more common. This is the guy who thinks you should have known what it was and not called him. You can tell his kind by their arrival. As soon as you tell him what you heard, he will say it was probably a raccoon or a cat or a transformer popping. Then you will have to ask him to check anyway. This differs from the officer who tells you that in an effort to calm your nerves but then says that he will go check to make sure. He is just used to people who are nervous and need to be calmed down while he knows it might still be something real.

Make the lazy or rude officer do his job. Don't get put off by his attitude that you are bothering him or interrupting other work. Just be polite and firm as you tell him you want him to check it out anyway. If he refuses, then you need to call the department later (not argue with him). As much as I hate this, a lot of the younger cops are not being taught the old customer service rules in the academy. They think they will really catch felons all the time and get upset at lesser calls.

What I always recommend for home defense is take a good defensive position and wait for the bad guys to come to you. Especially if you have one hallway leading to the bedroom area, you can cover the threat to the family without further endangering anyone. And if someone does come towards you, you can then rest assured that their intentions are not nice.

[KD5NRH]

( In a 360 degree low light threat environment, a tailgunner is an invaluable asset. ) And after they leave, you, your wife, and your dog can get some peaceful sleep.

That's why I taught my wife to shoot; she stays inside the door with the .243 and watches for anything moving that isn't me or the cats. Out to 100 yards, she can outshoot me with a rifle, and at least match me to 15 yards with a pistol.

About 15 minutes ago something started a ruckus outside. That skunk is now dead, bagged and downwind.

If we'd called 911, a deputy might be calling for directions by now, since we're 8 minutes minimum from the quick stop they're all at. Any threat that isn't in the house by the time they respond isn't much of a threat.

Thanks to the motion sensors not tripping, I could tell that it either wasn't over three feet tall or wasn't approaching the porch, so I went with a .22 rifle in hand and .357 in my pocket. Without that bit of advance notice, I would probably be explaining to the neighbors why I woke them up with the +3 Shotgun of Loudness over a skunk. (Mossberg 835 with overbored/ported barrel: it makes field loads sound like magnums, and magnums sound like cannon fire, and it's first shot is a #4 buck magnum. With the full choke, it also tends to make a squishy mess of small critters, which isn't something I want to do with a skunk close to the house.)

[Excaliber]

When all is said and done. In reality we are all our own policemen. "To protect and serve" is a lie. At least the "protect part is." The police cannot protect you or your property. That is YOUR job. They might be able to catch the criminal who got away. Their pay is to help them solve crimes (investigate and gather evidence that leads to catching and arresting the criminal). BUT we are responsible for policing our own property and our neighbors property (if they desire) regardless of what liberals and "let the police handle it" types think.
Where I come from, if you hear a suspicious noise outside, YOU go to investigate. Shooting at a prowler in the nightime (criminal misschief in the nighttime) is you not taking any chances that this unknown person who obviously doesn't belong there afterdark isn't going to harm you under the concealment of darkness.
Having said all that, this guy should not have shot first and ask questions later. Or in this case, answered questions later (to a grand jury). Look before you leap seems to apply here.

That's why I taught my wife to shoot; she stays inside the door with the .243 and watches for anything moving that isn't me or the cats. Out to 100 yards, she can outshoot me with a rifle, and at least match me to 15 yards with a pistol.

About 15 minutes ago something started a ruckus outside. That skunk is now dead, bagged and downwind.

If we'd called 911, a deputy might be calling for directions by now, since we're 8 minutes minimum from the quick stop they're all at. Any threat that isn't in the house by the time they respond isn't much of a threat.

Thanks to the motion sensors not tripping, I could tell that it either wasn't over three feet tall or wasn't approaching the porch, so I went with a .22 rifle in hand and .357 in my pocket. Without that bit of advance notice, I would probably be explaining to the neighbors why I woke them up with the +3 Shotgun of Loudness over a skunk. (Mossberg 835 with overbored/ported barrel: it makes field loads sound like magnums, and magnums sound like cannon fire, and it's first shot is a #4 buck magnum. With the full choke, it also tends to make a squishy mess of small critters, which isn't something I want to do with a skunk close to the house.)

There's a qualification that should be made here. If a violent incident is already in progress, it is you, your resources, and your immediate actions that will determine the outcome. Even if someone does manage to call 911, the damage would be done long before officers arrive if no one on the scene already takes effective action.

The prowler response outlined by KD5NRH works great on skunks, possums, armadillos, etc. However, going outside to hunt prowlers who might pose a threat to you actually increases their opportunity to do so because they can see where you are at least as easily as you can see them, you have to move away from cover from time to time, and the basic assumption should be where there's one, there's at least 2.

The police are far better prepared to deal with the many things that can go wrong than you or your wife would be. For example, if the bad guy manages to fire first and seriously wound you, what's the plan? The police don't yet know they're needed at your property. Does your wife stay inside, lock the door, call 911 and wait? Does she call 911 and go outside to try to help and expose herself to attack as well? Does she just skip the 911 part and instinctively run to your side, dropping all pretense of sound tactics? What do the two of you do when she is shot too?

I see very little upside to going outside, and lots of ugly possibilities when unwise tactics take the incident into the toilet. That's why I keep nothing worth dying for in the backyard, call the police if I think a prowler is outside, and set up a well thought out welcome party inside in case he's inclined to come after people before they can deal with him or them.

[Excaliber]

Well, I have to second all of Excaliber's excellent post about calling the police. It is our job and what we are trained to do. He really hit the nail on the head with people who heard something and did not call and then it turns out to be something major. I cannot count the times I was told by someone that they heard the incident (sometimes a murder) and did not call because they thought it was nothing.

And, while I want you to call the police, I also want to warn you about one type of officer that is getting more common. This is the guy who thinks you should have known what it was and not called him. You can tell his kind by their arrival. As soon as you tell him what you heard, he will say it was probably a raccoon or a cat or a transformer popping. Then you will have to ask him to check anyway. This differs from the officer who tells you that in an effort to calm your nerves but then says that he will go check to make sure. He is just used to people who are nervous and need to be calmed down while he knows it might still be something real.

Make the lazy or rude officer do his job. Don't get put off by his attitude that you are bothering him or interrupting other work. Just be polite and firm as you tell him you want him to check it out anyway. If he refuses, then you need to call the department later (not argue with him). As much as I hate this, a lot of the younger cops are not being taught the old customer service rules in the academy. They think they will really catch felons all the time and get upset at lesser calls.

What I always recommend for home defense is take a good defensive position and wait for the bad guys to come to you. Especially if you have one hallway leading to the bedroom area, you can cover the threat to the family without further endangering anyone. And if someone does come towards you, you can then rest assured that their intentions are not nice.

[Keith B]

Well, I have to second all of Excaliber's excellent post about calling the police. It is our job and what we are trained to do. He really hit the nail on the head with people who heard something and did not call and then it turns out to be something major. I cannot count the times I was told by someone that they heard the incident (sometimes a murder) and did not call because they thought it was nothing.

And, while I want you to call the police, I also want to warn you about one type of officer that is getting more common. This is the guy who thinks you should have known what it was and not called him. You can tell his kind by their arrival. As soon as you tell him what you heard, he will say it was probably a raccoon or a cat or a transformer popping. Then you will have to ask him to check anyway. This differs from the officer who tells you that in an effort to calm your nerves but then says that he will go check to make sure. He is just used to people who are nervous and need to be calmed down while he knows it might still be something real.

Make the lazy or rude officer do his job. Don't get put off by his attitude that you are bothering him or interrupting other work. Just be polite and firm as you tell him you want him to check it out anyway. If he refuses, then you need to call the department later (not argue with him). As much as I hate this, a lot of the younger cops are not being taught the old customer service rules in the academy. They think they will really catch felons all the time and get upset at lesser calls.

What I always recommend for home defense is take a good defensive position and wait for the bad guys to come to you. Especially if you have one hallway leading to the bedroom area, you can cover the threat to the family without further endangering anyone. And if someone does come toward you, you can then rest assured that their intentions are not nice.

Great posts Steve and Excaliber! We love having you guys on here for your insight and expert info provided.

I want to comment on one thing Steve said in particular: "What I always recommend for home defense is take a good defensive position and wait for the bad guys to come to you." That is EXCELLENT advice IMO. It gives YOU the tactical advantage. Just take a look at all of the old ambushes in the western's. They always had the upper hand on someone who was not expecting them to be there. You get the same advantage, as well as being able to protect you and your family with walls, doors, partitions, etc. between you and the bad guys. In the westerns, they had big boulders to hide behind. I don't have any of those in my house (but may install some depending on who wins the election tonight!)

[SlowDave]

Thanks guys. Good advice. Although movies aren't real life, it does always piss me off when the good guy goes walking through the dark house/woods/etc looking for the bad guy when he could just sit there and wait for the BG to come to him and then could easily pick him off. I don't want to be the idiot that walks out with a "shoot me" sign hanging around my neck. I'll deal with the noises etc to the best of my ability. Don't know that I'll call every time, but if there is any reason to suspect it's something other than an animal, I will make the call and take a more defensive look/see posture as much as possible.

Thanks!

[Doug.38PR]

The prowler response outlined by KD5NRH works great on skunks, possums, armadillos, etc. However, going outside to hunt prowlers who might pose a threat to you actually increases their opportunity to do so because they can see where you are at least as easily as you can see them, you have to move away from cover from time to time, and the basic assumption should be where there's one, there's at least 2.

The police are far better prepared to deal with the many things that can go wrong than you or your wife would be. For example, if the bad guy manages to fire first and seriously wound you, what's the plan? The police don't yet know they're needed at your property. Does your wife stay inside, lock the door, call 911 and wait? Does she call 911 and go outside to try to help and expose herself to attack as well? Does she just skip the 911 part and instinctively run to your side, dropping all pretense of sound tactics? What do the two of you do when she is shot too?

If the police were "better prepared to deal with the many things" then they would be on the scene as the crime was taking place...but they aren't. You are. The only thing they will have time to prepare is the camera to take a picture of your dead body at worst and at best take a verbal report from you that gets filed away and nothing ever happens.

Whether I call the police before or after I assess the situation depends on 100 different things. Whether I go outside or stay inside because I percieve it to be the best tactic also depends on 100 different things. Man has been protecting his hearth, home and land for 4000 years. Policemen are an invention of the mid 19th century. We have to take chances in life every day. Sometimes it means going outside to investigate an unusual bump in the night. There may be more than one, you've got to prepare for that. They may or may not be armed. They may or may not be ready for you.

[Liberty]

Whether I call the police before or after I assess the situation depends on 100 different things. Whether I go outside or stay inside because I percieve it to be the best tactic also depends on 100 different things. Man has been protecting his hearth, home and land for 4000 years. Policemen are an invention of the mid 19th century. We have to take chances in life every day. Sometimes it means going outside to investigate an unusual bump in the night. There may be more than one, you've got to prepare for that. They may or may not be armed. They may or may not be ready for you.

I guess I was born in a different time , but I was raised to take care of myself and whats mine. Some might call the cops every time a Racoon gets into their garden because they are just to frightened to take care of things themselves. I really cant understand how folks can be so afraid to check out their own back yards. Maybe its a different neigborhoods. These are interesting times. I do believe I do have a bigger understanding why our taxes are so high and our police are so busy. If we are to call the cops every time we here a noise or hear a dog bark we sure do need a lot of cops.



Now if i actually see someone, Its probably a good idea to call for re-enforcements.

[Excaliber]

Whether I call the police before or after I assess the situation depends on 100 different things. Whether I go outside or stay inside because I percieve it to be the best tactic also depends on 100 different things. Man has been protecting his hearth, home and land for 4000 years. Policemen are an invention of the mid 19th century. We have to take chances in life every day. Sometimes it means going outside to investigate an unusual bump in the night. There may be more than one, you've got to prepare for that. They may or may not be armed. They may or may not be ready for you.

I guess I was born in a different time , but I was raised to take care of myself and whats mine. Some might call the cops every time a Racoon gets into their garden because they are just to frightened to take care of things themselves. I really cant understand how folks can be so afraid to check out their own back yards. Maybe its a different neigborhoods. These are interesting times. I do believe I do have a bigger understanding why our taxes are so high and our police are so busy. If we are to call the cops every time we here a noise or hear a dog bark we sure do need a lot of cops.

Now if i actually see someone, Its probably a good idea to call for re-enforcements.

I confess I kinda wonder about folks who feel a need to run outside and chase every raccoon, skunk and armadillo out of their yards with gun in hand, or blast 'em to protect their turf. I enjoy watching the little critters myself.

The trick here is in being right every time about the source of the noise. The time you think it's a raccoon and go out to do the night ninja thing on your own and run into an armed burglar, you could try saying "oops!" and ask for a do-over, but I wouldn't put any money on a positive outcome.

[Excaliber]

If the police were "better prepared to deal with the many things" then they would be on the scene as the crime was taking place...but they aren't. You are. The only thing they will have time to prepare is the camera to take a picture of your dead body at worst and at best take a verbal report from you that gets filed away and nothing ever happens.

The logic appears a bit fuzzy here. Being well prepared to manage a situation and being clairvoyant enough to know when and where a situation will occur before it starts are two very different things.

Police manage situations they know about pretty well after they arrive on scene, and they can apply equipment and resources many folks don't keep on hand. If someone ever figures out the prediction in advance piece, he'll be one wealthy dude in no time.

There may be more than one, you've got to prepare for that. They may or may not be armed. They may or may not be ready for you.

In response to being ready to encounter more than one intruder, who may be armed and ready for you, it should be added that if there really are 1 or more bad guys out there, you may not survive the encounter you've elected to engage in from a tactically disadvantaged position. While you're making lists of things to prepare for, you might give that not unlikely outcome some attention as well.

[Liberty]

I confess I kinda wonder about folks who feel a need to run outside and chase every raccoon, skunk and armadillo out of their yards with gun in hand, or blast 'em to protect their turf. I enjoy watching the little critters myself.

The trick here is in being right every time about the source of the noise. The time you think it's a raccoon and go out to do the night ninja thing on your own and run into an armed burglar, you could try saying "oops!" and ask for a do-over, but I wouldn't put any money on a positive outcome.

If one has a garden or chickens you won't have them long if you don't protect it. I agree that shooting the critters is not a prime choice. Loud noises rocks or even an air gun can be pretty effective.

If One were afraid to go out into their own back yard after dark, because of a noise, I would assume its even more dangerous to venture away from our own property at night. I just think it is a sad condition if one becomes this afraid of the dark. I don't believe stepping into ones yard are going out into the evening is being a night ninja, I call it living a normal healthy life. I heard noises in back yard all the time, and I never felt like I was in danger, and just as important, I never put anyone else in danger that didn't need to be.

Maybe There are boggymen out in my back yard, but If they keep me so afraid that I can't even v enture out into own backyard, thaenb they have already killed a little piece of me.

[Keith B]

There are noises I will investigate, and those that I won't. Raccoons and skunks usually don't make the sound of breaking glass in a car window or of busting through a locked gate. If is sounds unlike an animal rooting around in the yard, I am gonna light it up with a flashlight from the house, or outside lights are going to go on. My main intent is to drive away whatever is out there without endangering myself or my family, with the hope of getting it gone before it does any damage. Then, if warranted, I can be on the phone with the police and advise them of the incident. If it is trying to come through the door or window of the house, then 911 and 1911.

[Doug.38PR]

Excaliber,
You are missing the point. True most people likely don't have all the AR-15s, Tactical Shotguns, Bulletproof vests, kevlar helmets, ninja masks, radios, SWAT teams, computers, investigation sources et al that cops have an hour after the crime has taken place....but all that doesn't do me or other people any good in the here and now when you hear a bump in the night. If a policeman happens by or his department predicts a robbery will occur on this or that night on this street because of previous robberies and catches the burgler(s) in the act...Yo Jo! to him. But this doesn't apply 95% of the time. If it did, there would be a cop sitting outside everybody's house 24/7. Not possible. De Facto, we are our own policeman 99% of the time whether most people choose to accept that or not.

In response to being ready to encounter more than one intruder, who may be armed and ready for you, it should be added that if there really are 1 or more bad guys out there, you may not survive the encounter you've elected to engage in from a tactically disadvantaged position. While you're making lists of things to prepare for, you might give that not unlikely outcome some attention as well.

And I may walk outside to get my mail right now and get mowed down in a driveby shooting all for some insane gang initiation test. I may pull out of my driveway and get smacked by another SUV and die. I might have a plane crash into my house as I type this post. What we are talking about here is securing your own property. Your own backyard. If you can't do that and have to call 911 everytime you hear something scratching on your screen door or bumping around the house...then you have a serious fear problem. Sometimes you have to just take a chance in life.

This is not to say you should never call the police and you should always go outside in every situation. But neither does it mean that you should never go outside, always lock your doors and fortify and always call the police as the original poster said.

[Excaliber]

I confess I kinda wonder about folks who feel a need to run outside and chase every raccoon, skunk and armadillo out of their yards with gun in hand, or blast 'em to protect their turf. I enjoy watching the little critters myself.

The trick here is in being right every time about the source of the noise. The time you think it's a raccoon and go out to do the night ninja thing on your own and run into an armed burglar, you could try saying "oops!" and ask for a do-over, but I wouldn't put any money on a positive outcome.

If one has a garden or chickens you won't have them long if you don't protect it. I agree that shooting the critters is not a prime choice. Loud noises rocks or even an air gun can be pretty effective.

If One were afraid to go out into their own back yard after dark, because of a noise, I would assume its even more dangerous to venture away from our own property at night. I just think it is a sad condition if one becomes this afraid of the dark. I don't believe stepping into ones yard are going out into the evening is being a night ninja, I call it living a normal healthy life. I heard noises in back yard all the time, and I never felt like I was in danger, and just as important, I never put anyone else in danger that didn't need to be.

Maybe There are boggymen out in my back yard, but If they keep me so afraid that I can't even v enture out into own backyard, thaenb they have already killed a little piece of me.

If you've got chickens or a garden that the critters are raiding, nothing I've said was intended to keep you from dealing with the varmints as needed to protect your food sources. Nor did I suggest that one should be afraid of the dark, or be afraid to go outside on his property when there's no indication that hostile humans may be there too.

When you do see movement or hear things that indicate something or someone is walking around on your property, it's a really good idea to know what you're dealing with before you step outside. Well placed automatic lights triggered by movement give you a real advantage by letting you get a good assessment of what's out there simply by looking out a window.

If you see or hear circumstances that indicate a human prowler may be on the property, IMHO the course of action that is most likely to give you an outcome you'll be happy with is to call the police to handle the outside while you take up a suitable position and posture to protect people on the inside.

That's just my opinion from having dealt with the folks who skulk around others' property for many years and spending a lot of time learning how they think and what they're capable of. Clearly there are other options available, and which one you select is up to you.