Well, this is indeed an interesting thread. Since some are against jumping to conclusions, I'll state this as hypothetical based on the following assumptions:
1. The dad yelled at the coach using expletives and other improper language but no direct threat of bodily harm to the coach.
2. The husband responded to this attack by pushing the dad, without any preceding physical contact between the two (i.e. the dad did not chest bump the husband first)
3. The dad pulled the gun based on this push alone (i.e. no other punches were thrown nor did the husband break out a scythe or chain).
4. Before pulling the gun, the dad did not attempt to abandon the encounter.
Couple of points based on these assumptions, which are made just to provide a point of discussion, not to judge this case prematurely:
1. On a non-legal basis, the dad is an idiot and made several bad decisions in a row.
2. On a legal basis, I think the critical thing is the provocation. If he provoked, as some have pointed out, then he has given up his right to respond to force with the threat of deadly force (ref: pc 9.31 a.2 and b.4). If that is the case, it doesn't matter if the husband was 450 lbs and a trained death cage fighter, nor if the stands for the 8 yr old soccer match were as high as Kyle Field (hence those points are not covered in my assumptions). My reading of that portion says that if you start it, you have to b.4.A walk away or state your intention to walk away AND b.4.B: the other person has to continue to use unlawful force against you. Otherwise, you are not justified due to your original provocation--period. This is an extremely important point to consider for any CHL holder for all their breathing hours.
Merriam-webster.com defines "provoke" as "to arouse to a feeling or action" or "to incite to anger." Based on these definitions (don't know if there are others in TPC) and my assumptions, I'd say the dad did indeed "provoke" the attack.
3. I have also coached kids sports, and I disagree with the poster who said you should live with this stuff or not coach. I am extremely mild tempered and do put up with a lot from the parents. But, the organization, other parents, law enforcement, and others need to assist. If we expect that the coaches should be able to deal with this or not coach, kids sports are over in this country. I would not expect all other coaches to put up with as much stuff as I quietly absorbed. It's ridiculous.
4. Sooner or later, this stuff may go to jury trial. Points 1 and 3 and the general American experience at kids sports games will then wash over into the legal side through the humans on the jury. God help the CHL holder if one of those jurists is a former kids sports coach.
And finally, a response to the last post:
Russell wrote:edmart001 wrote:<snip>
I am also struck by a point that I haven't noticed anyone pick up. That is apparently the CHL holder is 25 and a parent of a 7 or 8 year old. This means he had to have fathered the child at the ripe old age of between 16 and 18. It is not my place to judge, but knowing this does make me want to know more about this person's track record of making adult decisions as well as more detail about what happened on the day.
When you were between the ages of 16 and 18, did you make all the right adult decisions?
Not many 16 year old's do. I know I didn't. I was only thinking about one thing when I was that age.
I wouldn't judge his character based on that.
I would, and so will many others. I dislike this line of logic every time I hear it. "If you have ever made a mistake, then you shouldn't criticize others for making a mistake, regardless of whether it's the same one, a larger mistake with more consequences, or whatever." The deal is, I would judge MY OWN character for making a multiple-life-impacting mistake like that, and it will also definitely affect my opinion of the character of others. In spite of urges or hormones or whatever, one should maintain a level of judgement so as not to screw up their own life, and by extension, society as a whole. Similarly, even when one wishes to beat the crap out of a moron for cussing out his wife at a kids sports game, he should instead show some restraint and go over and, in a calm and relatively polite voice, ask the person to leave the premises. It's not easy, it's not fun, but otherwise, we just turn into a pack of wild dogs and say in our own defense, "Well, did YOU ever make a mistake?"
Those are my thoughts. Sorry so long of a post. Would like to hear feedback from the experts on my thoughts on the provocation aspect trumping all other points. And I respect others' points of view and have tried to restrain myself from inflammatory words and language to keep this a nice civil discussion of a very important topic and situation. Sorry so long and thanks for the discussion.
