Church Carry Question

[CodeJockey]

All, I tried to search but didn't find what I was looking for specifically. If I missed it, I apologize. What I'm wanting to know, is if I can legally carry at my Church which is definitely not posted 30.06. The reason I have a question is that we have Sunday School on Sundays, of course, and we have a pre-school for pre-K kids (mon-fri). There is no school above that. Often, I am working at the church doing computer work late in the evenings, and on Sunday mornings I would prefer to be armed. I just don't know if Sunday School / Pre-School would prevent me from legally carrying. Thanks so much!

Codejockey

[The Annoyed Man]

The answer is "Yes." Unless your church has a 30-06 posted, you may carry in church, and many of us do exactly that. If you search this site for others who've asked this same question, you'll find the relevant answers, but here's the long and the short of it:

PC §46.035.

UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

• (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
  
  • (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

§6.45

Places Prohibited: Class A Misdemeanor Violations.

A license holder may not carry a handgun on or about the license holder's person under authority of the Act in the following places:

• (5) On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship. No posting is required by the Act. Violation is a Class A misdemeanor under Texas Penal Code, §46.035. This subsection shall not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Texas Penal Code §30.06.

(emphasis mine)

I am pretty sure that covers it.

[CodeJockey]

Right, but would the pre-K or Sunday School be counted as a school, thus negating the ability to carry in a non-30.06 posted church?

[The Annoyed Man]

Right, but would the pre-K or Sunday School be counted as a school, thus negating the ability to carry in a non-30.06 posted church?

My guess is that Sunday School would not negate the ability to carry because it's a "church" activity as opposed to a "school" activity, but I don't know about Pre-K. I would defer to those here who actually are pastors and who would know better than I.

[LarryH]

Right, but would the pre-K or Sunday School be counted as a school, thus negating the ability to carry in a non-30.06 posted church?

IMHO, it would not. Nearly every church has some form of "Sunday School" or "Weekend Bible Study". I believe the legislators would have considered that factor and specifically included appropriate language if that had been their intent.

But, of course, IANAL nor do I play one on TV.

In other words, I agree with The Annoyed Man.

[mr.72]

seems the pre-K may make it kind of like a day care? is that considered a "school"?

I know both of my kids went to pre-K one year before starting regular school and it was absolutely like a "school". Dunno what the legal definition is though so that is the real question.

I do think this is a very valid question and I'm quite curious of the answer since I am in the same boat.

[Boxerrider]

One may consider the pre-k children there during the week to be in a privately-operated day-care center. IIRC carry is legal unless posted 30.06.

[BigBlueDodge]

Unfortunately, the law does not define what is/isn't a school. I believe in another post, Charles eluded that this will be clarified in the next legislative session. In the end, it will be what a prosecutor can convince the jury it is. And if I had to guess, the jury will be sympathetic to defining that a gathering of children in a classroom setting would constitue school. Take note of the "school" part in the term "pre-school". It might be different if your church elected to call their school a "day care", but instead they chose to call it "pre-school". Carry at your own risk. There is no clear answer on this.

[CodeJockey]

Well, now that you mention it. I'm not entirely sure they do call it a pre-school instead of a day-care. I'll check the website for the exact wording.

[petroleumag07]

What if your church is a church on the weekends and a school on the weekdays???

Are you able to carry on the weekends?

[CodeJockey]

Well, I looked it up, and they definitely refer to it as a pre-school. So now I'm still confused...

[troglodyte]

Obligatory IANAL Preface

It is my contention that "school, public or private" are referring to schools accredited by TEA or those private schools that TEA recognizes as accredited by their respective organizations (which basically means they are "accredited" by TEA without TEA having to do the visit).

I figure that almost no church pre-schools are accredited if they don't have an elementary school attached with them. I don't imagine any day-care "pre-school" being accredited.

When people are asked, I feel most would answer that a "school" is what we normally think of a school being. Red brick, flag out front, spewing milk through your nose at lunch, books and desks and crayons.

If we really wanted to get picky about it, homeschooling is recognized by the State. Does that mean you can't carry at home? Or what about going to a gun school? Or what if your kids are playing school? Or you happen to be by a lake that has a school of fish in it?

Now I will admit that it gets sticky when a church is housing an accredited school, whether it be the church's or they are under a different charter.

I think that reasonable people, regardless of the presence of a school (by any definition) in a church, will realize that Sunday church activities are not "school" and the building is not a school building.

But what do I know......

I hope this becomes a non-question when the legislation meets this year.

[heliguy972]

No problems without a 30.06. I let my minister and kids ministry leader know I carry and submitted by CHL with my background verification for working with the kids. We have several other CHL's and 2 LEO's that carry on sunday and the staff is well informed @ it...