Concealed Carry on High School Football Stadium

[rele]

I am really impressed with some of the responses on this forum. You guys do an excellent job of making your point, and further providing statutes to back up your responses.

I am a Concealed Carry Holder, but I have a question. I understand the concept that you cannot carry on the premises of a school. But the penal code also makes reference to a school as grounds where school related activity is being conducted. So can you carry, with CHL, into a High School Football stadium?


Thanks

RELE

[nitrogen]

nope.

High school football is a school-sponsored event, so nope.

Maybe, possibly (if you wanted to be a test case) you might if there was no event going on. I'd be interested if there was any case law or opinions on it specifically.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm pretty sure you can't CCW to a high school football game. That kind of distinction seems pretty clear to me.

The questions that interest me more are the "gray area" ones. For instance, if a non-school related organization is renting that high school football stadium for a non-school related event, does the law still apply? For example... If a church organization wanted to rent the stadium for a crusade event, would the fact that the stadium owner is the ISD make it illegal for you to carry into the event? (Think Billy Graham crusade, or something like that.)

[lrb111]

TAM you scenario does exist in Odessa. A local church has their Sunday services in a local school on Sunday. Is it a no go, or a 30.06? I would think a conscientious chl holder has to remain prudent on that one.

[KBCraig]

So can you carry, with CHL, into a High School Football stadium?

A stadium is not a building, so the answer is yes, but only if there is no sporting event or school activity taking place.

[FlynJay]

I'm pretty sure you can't CCW to a high school football game. That kind of distinction seems pretty clear to me.

The questions that interest me more are the "gray area" ones. For instance, if a non-school related organization is renting that high school football stadium for a non-school related event, does the law still apply? For example... If a church organization wanted to rent the stadium for a crusade event, would the fact that the stadium owner is the ISD make it illegal for you to carry into the event? (Think Billy Graham crusade, or something like that.)

IANAL and this is not legal advice.

If the event is not sponsored by a school or educational institution then you can legally carry, so ;you can carry for the example you've mentioned.

PC w6.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

[CWOOD]

Just something to think about,

Some stadium facilities may well rise to the level of "a building" and, thus, meet the definition of "premisis". They are often much more than some outdoor bleacher seats.

Just food for thought on this topic.

[brianko]

So can you carry, with CHL, into a High School Football stadium?

A stadium is not a building, so the answer is yes, but only if there is no sporting event or school activity taking place.

But if it's not a "building," it would appear to fall under the definition of "grounds."

I've often wondered how far away the imaginary boundaries for "grounds" extends. Let's say there's a HS football game at the Cotton Bowl, clearly a school-sponsored activity. I would think (someone correct me here if I'm wrong) that Fair Park can't be posted 30.06 because it's owned by the city of Dallas. So where would carry be prohibited? Next to the stadium? A few feet away? Into the parking lot? How about across the street? On the far side of Fair Park? I-30? The northern boundary of Dallas?

(Obviously I'm exaggerating with the last two examples. But where, exactly, do the "grounds" end?)

[KBCraig]

So can you carry, with CHL, into a High School Football stadium?

A stadium is not a building, so the answer is yes, but only if there is no sporting event or school activity taking place.

But if it's not a "building," it would appear to fall under the definition of "grounds."

Yes it would. And "grounds" are only off limits during school activities.

[mkmulin13]

I'm pretty sure you can't CCW to a high school football game. That kind of distinction seems pretty clear to me.

The questions that interest me more are the "gray area" ones. For instance, if a non-school related organization is renting that high school football stadium for a non-school related event, does the law still apply? For example... If a church organization wanted to rent the stadium for a crusade event, would the fact that the stadium owner is the ISD make it illegal for you to carry into the event? (Think Billy Graham crusade, or something like that.)

This is my first post, so hello all. This site is great! I will say that the law is very difficult for us to interpret and that we do so very differently. My answer to the "Billy Graham Crusade" is NO! Reason:

PC 46.035 (b) (6): on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

Although it is in a stadium and not during a school function, I believe it now has been an established place of religious worship. I think there are three options in cases of uncertainty: (1) find out if it is legal to ccw and follow applicable rules to the place/event, (2) if still unclear about ccw, that is why it is called ccw...nobody knows, (3) if uncertain don't carry to the event.

I will definately say that I don't advocate violating laws and would hope all would abide by them. This is why this forum is great. We can get a different perspective on the law from other people.

~Mac

[FlynJay]

I'm pretty sure you can't CCW to a high school football game. That kind of distinction seems pretty clear to me.

The questions that interest me more are the "gray area" ones. For instance, if a non-school related organization is renting that high school football stadium for a non-school related event, does the law still apply? For example... If a church organization wanted to rent the stadium for a crusade event, would the fact that the stadium owner is the ISD make it illegal for you to carry into the event? (Think Billy Graham crusade, or something like that.)

This is my first post, so hello all. This site is great! I will say that the law is very difficult for us to interpret and that we do so very differently. My answer to the "Billy Graham Crusade" is NO! Reason:

PC 46.035 (b) (6): on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

Although it is in a stadium and not during a school function, I believe it now has been an established place of religious worship. I think there are three options in cases of uncertainty: (1) find out if it is legal to ccw and follow applicable rules to the place/event, (2) if still unclear about ccw, that is why it is called ccw...nobody knows, (3) if uncertain don't carry to the event.

I will definately say that I don't advocate violating laws and would hope all would abide by them. This is why this forum is great. We can get a different perspective on the law from other people.

~Mac

Incorrect. This is another situation where you have to read the entire statute (amendments are usually added to the end).

If you have not been given notice under 30.06 then you can carry at the Billy Gram Crusade.

PC46.035 (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

[mkmulin13]

I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out for me!!

~Mac

[bryang]

Welcome, Mac, it is good to have you on board. This is an excellent place to learn from those that have experienced it and are willing to share it with the rest of us.

Good Luck!
-geo

[KBCraig]

I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out for me!!

Don't sweat it, it's a common mistake. We often see people who've been through a couple of renewal classes but still believe churches and hospitals are automatically off limits.

We do need a good clean-up of the code, but every change carries risks of something inadvertent (or even malicious) slipping in there.

My favorite suggestion is to just delete Chapter 46.

[SlowDave]

I'm pretty sure you can't CCW to a high school football game. That kind of distinction seems pretty clear to me.

The questions that interest me more are the "gray area" ones. For instance, if a non-school related organization is renting that high school football stadium for a non-school related event, does the law still apply? For example... If a church organization wanted to rent the stadium for a crusade event, would the fact that the stadium owner is the ISD make it illegal for you to carry into the event? (Think Billy Graham crusade, or something like that.)

IANAL and this is not legal advice.

If the event is not sponsored by a school or educational institution then you can legally carry, so ;you can carry for the example you've mentioned.

PC w6.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

I think an important distinction is an actual school ("physical premises of a school or educational institution") vs. a school activity at another location such as a stadium ("any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or ed. inst. is being conducted"). For Annoyed Man, it reads that it's legal to carry at a stadium that sometimes houses school sponsored events when there is not a school-sponsored event going on. For the guy asking about carrying at church that meets at the school building, I'd have to say that's not allowed by the current law, since it would fall under the first phrase, not requiring an event for the location to be considered off-limits. Am I right here? So a school building ("physical premises") is off limits from when it's built until it's knocked down or sold to someone to take a new identity, right?

Could bring in lots of gray areas, like basketball gymnasiums that are sometimes used for non-school events, and are located "close" to the main school buildings, but maybe across a street or a few hundred feet away or something. I dunno. Thoughts?