Does concealed mean not visible or no one suspects?

[davandron]

So, I'm trying to understand one thing about concealed carry that I haven't found yet; perhaps someone can help? Does concealed mean that it's hidden from view (i.e. not visible / not printing) or that no one suspects you're carrying? While I believe the best approach in normal situations is such that no one suspects you're carrying, I am curious what is actually required.

Perhaps some scenarios will clarify my question: imagine a zippered, drop-leg / thigh pouch, maybe even in camo colors. The gun doesn't print; one has any way of knowing if there is or is not a firearm in the pouch, but it looks like something that holds firearm.

As a similar situation, one day when I was a teenage, I was walking in my neighborhood with a friend and carrying my electric guitar in a black, soft-sided case slung over my back. For anyone who is not familiar with soft guitar cases I've attached an image, but basically it looks a lot like a rifle case. A police officer saw us, asked what was in the bag, and then commanded me to open the bag (he didn't believe me when I said "a guitar"). He appeared honestly surprised that there was a guitar in the bag. It's the same situation; it looked like something that's used to carry firearm, but the only way to know for sure was to actually look inside.

So what's required by law? Thanks in advance for the opinions and insight!

[rm9792]

I would like to know what business he has asking you to open a bag? Unless you were acting suspicious?

[sylus27]

It mostly means not visible or discernable. I think the thigh holster might be pushing it, but would probably conform to the letter of the law- just not the intent. I'll let someone more knowledgeable chime in about the technicalities. I personally wouldn't wear it because I'd rather nobody even suspected.

[boomerang]

I suspect everyone is armed until proven otherwise.

[Doug]

I think you'd be pushing you luck wearing something like that. As for the title of the thread, it's both.

[galvestonredneck]

I would like to know what business he has asking you to open a bag? Unless you were acting suspicious?

He sad he was a TEEN at the time he was stoped; That is the very definition of "SUSPICIOUS" --LOL

[rm9792]

My bad, i missed that part.

[KBCraig]

I would like to know what business he has asking you to open a bag? Unless you were acting suspicious?

You can't be "suspicious" about carrying a rifle, since doing so is perfectly legal.

[LedJedi]

I would like to know what business he has asking you to open a bag? Unless you were acting suspicious?

I believe a LEO can ask you anything they want to ask you. Whether you are legally compelled to comply or not is another matter...

please correct me if i'm wrong here.

In response to the original question, here is the legal text that applies:

UBCHAPTER H. LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN



§ 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(1) "Action" means single action, revolver, or
semi-automatic action.
(2) "Chemically dependent person" means a person who
frequently or repeatedly becomes intoxicated by excessive
indulgence in alcohol or uses controlled substances or dangerous
drugs so as to acquire a fixed habit and an involuntary tendency to
become intoxicated or use those substances as often as the
opportunity is presented.
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence
of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.

I would think that the type of hip holster you're talking about would qualify as openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person. Therefore probably would not qualify as concealed as I personally would interpret the law. Now... how i personally interpret the law and $8 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks and that's about it. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.

Bottom line essentially is do you have the $$ and resources to be a test case for this? If so, please do so as I'd be curious as to the outcome myself.

If not... best look into more "reasonable" methods of concealment.

Hope that helps.

[davandron]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Yeah, I too had read the law on concealment but thought I'd get other opinions. My thought is that it does not violate the law, since the handgun is not discernible or displayed (an empty container looks the same as a loaded container), but just like when I was a teenage it would probably draw unwanted interest.

To clarify on the time when I was 14, my friend and I were walking from one friend's house to another in our subdivision. I wasn't doing anything other than walking and talking, but I was a teenager and I think the officer had never seen a guitar gig bag (but had seen plenty of rifle cases). This was in Illinois, and there I think it's illegal for a minor to be in possession of any firearm without direct adult supervision regardless of whether the minor has a FOID card.

BTW, this thread did get me thinking about expectations and assumptions. If one were to carry a rifle around town in a sling bag, I think I would get a guitar-shaped case that say "Gibson Guitars" on the side.

Thanks again!

[XDpackinBob]

Goes back to the Thompson Sub in a violin case or a B.A.R. in a guitar case. Ya know, the old days.

My self, I don't want anybody to know I'm armed, not even suspect it. I loose the advantage and risk being blind-sided just to get at the gun, if one suspects I have one. So I'm taking the law to mean "Total Concealment" to where one does not even suspect a gun is there. No printing, no holster sounds, no gun oil smell, no open coat/shirt flash, no belt clips showing while ones shirt is tucked in and so on. Anything that may cause undue alarm of others or could cause an attacker to try and see if they can get at what they think may be a gun, by a blind side attack. Total conceal to me allows others to go about their day not worried about it, being they don't know and one shows no signs in any way that its there. It's the art of concealment. But when a situation comes up and it's needed concealment is out the window.

I have never been in a situation where I needed to use deadly force, and hope I never am, but the days are changing and I have had things happen here that could have gone bad if I had walked out into it, unarmed. I am feeling less and less safe even in my home and with police response times on a Crime already in progress code 3 lights call at around 10 to 15 minutes in my area. I don't have a choice, but to self protect and conceal so I can just take out the trash over the properity line to the street, and feel safer being armed legally.

It's a sad day when one has to pack just to feel safe taking out the trash..

[WayniacKT]

It seems to me the law is that as long as it dosent look like a gun its not a gun.
I see folks all the time carrying those fanny pack things. Everyone in the gun culture knows that 99% of the time there is a gun in one of those things but still you cant see it so legaly there is no gun.
I used to regulary carry with a Desantis EZ rider. This is basically a zip up "dayplanner" looking thing that has a belt paddle. At first I was a little worried about carrying that way, but no one notice at all. Most ppl are too busy with their own lives to notice you or what you have hanging from your belt. As long as it dosent look like a gun your fine.
The 'safe packer" is becoming popular with conceal carry folks and it sound like your thing is similar but not sure without picts.
I do, however, now carry either a Kel-Tec, in my front pocket in a pocket holster, or my 9mm Taurus IWB strong side depending on the clothing im wearing, and the threat level of the area I'll be in.
Of course in Houston, some areas require the carry of a S&W 500, but those are a bit hard to conceal.

Cheers,