Scary situation last night

[bdickens]

I've read the reports of LE agencied throwing loaded Glocks out of helicopters and suchlike withiout incident. I'm not about to try that myself, but I do know for a fact that mine won't fire if dropped from about waist high.

[mr.72]

well I know a lot of folks are into 1911s and also .40...

but I would have to say this, to a Kel-Tec and Bersa pistol owner...

9mm ammo is cheap and effective. If you can get more rounds for the dollar, you may practice more and you might become much more comfortable with your pistol. This is a counter to the .40 argument. I don't want to get into a calibre debate but I guess we will anyway.

Also, a manual safety to me is a terrible idea for a self-defense pistol. I would select one with a safety design that you are comfortable with, but that does not require two actions in order to fire. This is of course just MHO. Certainly there are thousands of people trained to nearly instinctively disengage the safety before firing but I don't think I would want to rely on that under stress.

[Liberty]

9mm ammo is cheap and effective. If you can get more rounds for the dollar, you may practice more and you might become much more comfortable with your pistol. This is a counter to the .40 argument. I don't want to get into a calibre debate but I guess we will anyway.

Also, a manual safety to me is a terrible idea for a self-defense pistol. I would select one with a safety design that you are comfortable with, but that does not require two actions in order to fire. This is of course just MHO. Certainly there are thousands of people trained to nearly instinctively disengage the safety before firing but I don't think I would want to rely on that under stress.

This isn't the thread for a Manual Safety - DAO war either. but I want to comment for clarity.

The trick with me with a Manual safety is to make drawing and thumbing the safety all in one motion. The other thing that works for me is to only carry guns that are simular. Switching and practicing drawing with both a 1911 and a Glock fer instance could confuse muscle memory. YMMV

[KD5NRH]

I've read the reports of LE agencied throwing loaded Glocks out of helicopters and suchlike withiout incident. I'm not about to try that myself, but I do know for a fact that mine won't fire if dropped from about waist high.

I know that a 1950s 1911A1 won't pop a primer when dropped from 6ft on low-pile carpet repeatedly, or bonked around at random a bit. Same goes for a New Model Blackhawk.

Yes, that's my test for work on the internals of pretty much any gun. No, I won't try it on concrete.

[LedJedi]

good advice you're getting here on this thread. I'd certainly give it some knoggin time.

In addition I would add 2 bumper stickers to your rig.

"Driver only carries $20 in ammunition"

"Joe Horn is my hero"

Ok, don't actually put either one of those. that was just said for comic effect. The first sticker makes your empty car a prime target for thieves as it's logical to assume there may be a gun in your car and the 2nd may get you hassled by anti-joe folks, but you gotta admit, it was funny for a second :)

Carry Condition 1

If you dont know what condition 1 is you probably dont know who jeff cooper is either. I would suggest educating yourself on both topics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper_(colonel)
Jeff Cooper's work has been monumental in my self defense mentality and strategy.

Here's some of Mr. Cooper's universal wisdom just as a teaser.

4 Universal rules of gun safety.
1) All guns are always loaded.
2) Never point the muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sighs are on the target.
4) Be sure of your target and what is behind it
- Jeff Cooper

The enemy one kills in war may be a splendid; brave, clean, reverent, truthful and so on. But a predatory felon who victimizes innocent non-combatants on the street is a proven goblin, sentenced by his own initiative.
- Jeff Cooper

You do not kill the goblin. He has chosen his own death by virtue of his own actions.
-Merddyn

If you don't intend to win, don't fight. But, if you choose to fight, make winning your exclusive objective until the fight is over.
- Jeff Cooper

You probably should turn denfense into offence if the oportunity presents itself after the opening of hostilities. (Merddyn - the intent of your assailant is already proven.)
- Jeff Cooper

It is obvious that awareness, the by-product of alertness, is the first principle of any sort of fighting, and especially so in the case of the man alone.
- Jeff Cooper

The way to win is to know that there is going to be a fight before it happens. Once you know that, "your strength is as the strength of ten" because you can dictate the conditions of the conflict.
- Jeff Cooper

If you don't know you're in trouble, no amount of ability on your part will save you. (Merddyn: Therefore alertness is even more critical than ability.)
- Jeff Cooper

It is important to note that numbers do not necessarily mean bodies. One well-situated rifleman - alert, skillful and determined - can be the equivalent of a dozen or more untrained, sketchily armed, or badly disciplined assailants.
- Jeff Cooper

In small unit tactics sheer surprise may totally invert numerical superiority
- Jeff Cooper

Then if one day evil does at last arrive you will remember the watchwords - Initiative, Surprise, SPEED. You'll have a better chance than most.
- Jeff Cooper

Since most people respond to hypothetcial with the assumption that it will not come to them, the first step in adjusting to your present social situation is the hard, clear, unflinching understanding that it can indeed come to us - personally.

It is amazing to read people that did not choose to believe this until after they have been victimized. They all knew that burglary, robbery, assault and murder were not only possible, but frequent, but they took no precautions, but they took no precautions because they simpley would not admit that they, themselves, could be the victim.
- Jeff Cooper

The police cannot protect you in your home. If goblins break in upon you the police should be called - as soon as you get around to it - in order to write out reports and clean up the mess. But the goblins are your problem. Bear that always in mind.
- Jeff Cooper

The stranger at your door must be considered a possible target until otherwise proven. And this is not fear, much less the popularly misused term "paranoia." This is intellegent caution.
- Jeff Cooper

There are several books out by jeff cooper. IMO they should be required reading for every american.

[HerbM]

"Joe Horn is my hero"

Jeff Cooper's work has been monumental in my self defense mentality and strategy.

Here's some of Mr. Cooper's universal wisdom just as a teaser.

4 Universal rules of gun safety.
1) All guns are always loaded.
2) Never point the muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4) Be sure of your target and what is behind it
- Jeff Cooper

If you don't intend to win, don't fight. But, if you choose to fight, make winning your exclusive objective until the fight is over.
- Jeff Cooper

1++ Jeff Cooper. For those with no Jeff Cooper books, what would today be his blog is here: http://www.molonlabe.net/Commentaries/

Note the site name: http://www.molonlabe.net/Commentaries/

I dreamed I saw Joe Horn last night,
alive as you and me.
Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"
"I never died" said he,
"I never died" said he.

"The Next Door Burglars killed you Joe,
they bashed you Joe" says I.
"Takes more than clubs to kill a man"
Says Joe "I didn't die"
Says Joe "I didn't die"

"In Pasadena, Joe," says I,
Him standing by my bed,
"They framed you on a murder charge,"
Says Joe, "But I ain't dead,"
Says Joe, "But I ain't dead."

And standing there as big as life
and smiling with his eyes.
Says Joe "What they can never kill
went on to strategize,
went on to strategize"

From Pasadena up to Spring,
in every mine and mill,
Where well-armed folks defend their rights,
it's there you find Joe Hill,
it's there you find Joe Hill!

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
alive as you and me.
Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"
"I never died" said he,
"I never died" said he.

[/quote]
Fox is showing the immediate police interview of Joe Horn (in his yard) immediately after incident. Interestingly it is pitch dark -- I wonder how long after this was.

[dac1842]

Monday morning quarterbacking is so much fun. We are always right! First, you did the right thing by ignorning the kids and kept driving. Would you have been justified in drawing, in your case chambering, and firing? Please see the article in today's (7/5) Houston Chronicle about kids weaving in and out of traffic and throwing a brick through the windshield and smashing the drivers face.

Now for the way you carry, or I hope by the time you read this carried. If you are not comfortable enough to carry loaded then you should not carry at all. This indicates you have not taken the time to become completely familar with the tool you expect to save your life. Before you carry you should practice with the weapon not only on the firing range but in the privacy of your home. How can you expect for your closest friend to save your life if you don't trust it?

When you draw your weapon instead of being concerned about the trigger, practice pulling using the indexing method, this is putting your finger ( or booger hook LOL) outside of the trigger guard and along the slide. It is much quicker to place the finger on the trigger when you identify the threat than it is to draw and try to chamber one that requires the use of both hands, kind of trickey if you do this while driving.

You did fine in the handling of your situation. Sometimes ignorning the potential threat will make it go away. However, had they stayed with you a call to 911 would have been in order. I think a lesson we all take away from the Joe Horn case is do not state your intentions. Call 911, identify the problem, allow the police to respond. I personally believe that Joe Horn would not have had suffered near as much grief if he had just called 911 and reported a burglary in progress, and then gone outside and fixed stupid x2.

[LedJedi]

...and then gone outside and fixed stupid x2.

[HerbM]

...I think a lesson we all take away from the Joe Horn case is do not state your intentions. Call 911, identify the problem, allow the police to respond. I personally believe that Joe Horn would not have had suffered near as much grief if he had just called 911 and reported a burglary in progress, and then gone outside and fixed stupid x2.

Right. It's fine to stay inside, or even assert you rights if you feel that is best. Do NOT tell 911 what outcome you predict.

It can make sense to tell 911, I am wearing "blah blah blah" at 1001 Knoll Ave, and going to the front yard -- then hang up before they can tell you not to do so, or let them advise you once if you need information about responding plainclothes or something. If they give you advice you intend to ignore, don't argue, hang up -- maybe you never heard it.

Spend the time you WOULD have spent arguing trying to figure out why YOUR idea is better than the advice, or not.

It sure sounds a lot worse when the press says "ignored 13 (or whatever) warnings not to go outside."

[bdickens]

What I wonder is: where do the yahoos that write the leftist propaganda - I mean "news" - get the idea that a 911 dispatcher has some kind of authority.

[LedJedi]

What I wonder is: where do the yahoos that write the leftist propaganda - I mean "news" - get the idea that a 911 dispatcher has some kind of authority.

I think it goes hand in hand with the general mindset that you need someone else to tell you how to live, what to believe and generally how to be a good sheep. Sheeple aren't supposed to be critically thinking mechanisms. That goes against the idea that the government is the solution to every problem.

[dukalmighty]

Yeah sure!! There was a thread just this week about where a guy dropped his RIA only 3 feet and it went off.

That guy was me and I solved the problem by putting in a heavier firing pin spring,I still carry the same gun with a round in the chamber and cocked and locked,The only person that should ever be afraid of my gun is the BG that tries to attack or rob me

[Furyataurus]

Jeeperbryan, check out HK P2000's, HK has a combo deal where you buy a P2000 357 Sig and you get a S&W 40 cal barrel and extra magazine for $800 at Academy, if they have one in stock. Had I known about that deal I would've picked one up, but I got an FNP-40 instead at Bass Proshops for $510. My first pistol is an HK USP 9mm that I conceal carry the most. I switch out to the FNP-40 every so often. Both pistols have a Hogue Handall which IMO makes them better. Also, from talking to police and other friends they all say to carry fully loaded with one in the pipe. Both my pistols have traditional hammers and the FNP-40 doesn't have a safety but my HK does. Sometimes I have both pistols with me in my truck with mags fully loaded. I have 7 mags for the HK and only 3 for my FNP-40, but planning on getting more mags for the FNP-40, jeez, mags for my pistols cost at least $40 each . Sometimes I decide to buy ammo more than to buy extra mags. XD's are nice but there are pistols out there that have more capacity with relatively the same dimensions. I.E. FNP-40 is close in size to an XDSC 40. FNP-40 has 14+1, XDSC has 9+1 and 12+1 if you use the extended grip.

[JDKRIEK]

Situation:

you did the right thing, better safe than sorry. I work in downtown Dallas and do my best to get the hell out before 6PM

Firearm:

condition one, always. Cocked and locked. Chamber loaded, hammer cocked, thumb safety on.

Even in a more secure vehicle, 1 second to break glass, 1 second to put a gun in your face - and it can happen in broad daylight.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 40#p193137

[AustinBob]

If you're looking for an excellent, extremely safe chambered carry gun, check out the H&K P7. Safe to carry with a round in chamber because it is impossible to fire unless you give the squeeze cocking lever a very conscious squeeze. You can hold it in your hand and (not necessarily recommended, of course) cycle the trigger all day with a round in the chamber - but the trigger just flops around harmlessly and it simply cannot fire unless you first squeeze-cock it, which takes a very conscious effort, not something anyone could do accidentally. Also, absolutely no safety levers to worry about, and a total of 9 rounds of semi-auto rapid fire 9mm if you ever have a need to discourage assailants by accelerating high velocity lead particles in their direction. One of the world's safest guns for carrying with a chambered round, and still available in many gun stores although out of production. The P7 I owned for many years was impeccably reliable and never once jammed. There's nothing like absolute reliability and safety to give you confidence as a CHL holder. Like you, I often carried the P7 unchambered, which made it redundantly safe, knowing that racking the slide took only a split second.

I currently own an ultra-compact Kahr .40 - it's a smaller, lighter gun that fits nicely in a pocket, but it has several drawbacks: it only holds 6 rounds (actually, five, unless you carry it chambered)...I know most of the time when a gun is used, about 3 shots are fired...but one doesn't want to be the first person out of ammo in a gun fight! Also if you don't carry it chambered, there's another important issue of concern: you can't just rack the slide to chamber a round like you would witih most guns; the manufacturer specifically warns against that. You must rack it back to the locked position and then use the release lever to allow the slide to slam home and chamber a round...simply racking it back and letting go, can produce a half-chambered round, which you definitely don't want in a defensive carry weapon. But the extra fumbling with the release lever takes precious extra time.

Hope this helps,