30.06 in a school building

[barres]

Basically, anyway. I just went to the Hawkins Administration building for Huntsville ISD to drop off some paperwork. I don't know if this would be considered a school since there would rarely be students present, but it is definitely school (district) property and it was definitely a building, so I wasn't packing. Since I was considering it a school, anyway, I didn't pay much attention to any signs going in, but on my way out I noticed in the vestibule (not on the door or I couldn't have missed it coming in) a big ole 30.06 sign. Everything looked proper without me stopping to measure letter size, etc..

So would this mean that the district is conceding that the building is not a school? Wouldn't the sign then be unenforceable because the property is owned by a government entity? Am I reading too much into this since their lawyer is probably just trying to justify his inflated salary (sorry Charles , I'm sure you earn every penny you are paid, but not all lawyers do) by posting signs he (or she) knows are unnecessary?

[HerbM]

The instructors and lawyers will need to give you the "real" answers...

But my rule is that an improper sign is meaningless to me.

If it were a school it wouldn't have one of those.

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

[Charles L. Cotton]

30.06 signs can be posted on governmental property that is already rendered off-limits under TPC §§46.03 or 46.035. It seems silly to me, as it's already off-limits and the sign changes nothing.

Chas.

§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN.

• (a) A license holder commits an offense if the
  license holder:
  • (1) carries a handgun under the authority of
    Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another
    without effective consent; and
    (2) received notice that:
  • (A) entry on the property by a license holder
    with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
    (B) remaining on the property with a concealed
    handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
  (b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice
  if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to
  act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written
  communication.
  (c) In this section:
  • (1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section
    30.05(b).
    (2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by
    Section 46.035(f).
    (3) "Written communication" means:
  • (A) a card or other document on which is written
    language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06,
    Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
    handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
    Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
    property with a concealed handgun"; or
    (B) a sign posted on the property that:
  • (i) includes the language described by
    Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
    (ii) appears in contrasting colors with
    block letters at least one inch in height; and
    (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner
    clearly visible to the public.
  (d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
  
  (e) It is an exception to the application of this section
  that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
  owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
  other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
  the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

[Kalrog]

30.06 signs can be posted on governmental property that is already rendered off-limits under TPC §§46.03 or 46.035. It seems silly to me, as it's already off-limits and the sign changes nothing.

Chas.

Chas,

I think you missed the fact that this is not a school, but an administration building. It is owned by the district (government owned property), but it is NOT otherwise off limits and as such could only be posted if there was a governmental meeting in progress at the time.

This interpretation hinges on an admin building NOT being a school.

[jimlongley]

The school district where my wife works has 30.06 signs posted on their parking lots - non-compliant signs on government property - EXCEPT for the lot of the admin building. The last time I was there they had a totally non-compliant "no weapons per Texas law" sign on the door, and I said something to the officer sitting at a desk just inside the door, an officer I knew from Citizens' Police Academy, about the sign and the law, and he just grinned and shrugged.

[smyrna]

I have also seen 30.06 postings in school buildings which of course is ridiculous because they are off limits anyway. THe ones I have seen almost seem to be identical, printed on a heavy poster type material with both the English and spanish version. It's like they all come from the same place. I wouldn't be surprised if the school doesn't recieve them courtesy of some signage program or something.

Now the administration building twist is something I've never thought of. There are a lot of schools that have the administration housed in the same building as kids in classes. Seems to me that would definately be a violation. I think the admin building being off to itself would still be a "slippery slope" if anywhere near a campus. I personally wouldn't want to test the waters.

[LM230023]

The school district where my wife works has 30.06 signs posted on their parking lots - non-compliant signs on government property - EXCEPT for the lot of the admin building. The last time I was there they had a totally non-compliant "no weapons per Texas law" sign on the door, and I said something to the officer sitting at a desk just inside the door, an officer I knew from Citizens' Police Academy, about the sign and the law, and he just grinned and shrugged.

Most all Plano schools are posted 30.06 at the entrance(s) to the parking lots.

[Charles L. Cotton]

30.06 signs can be posted on governmental property that is already rendered off-limits under TPC §§46.03 or 46.035. It seems silly to me, as it's already off-limits and the sign changes nothing.

Chas.

Chas,

I think you missed the fact that this is not a school, but an administration building. It is owned by the district (government owned property), but it is NOT otherwise off limits and as such could only be posted if there was a governmental meeting in progress at the time.

This interpretation hinges on an admin building NOT being a school.

I understand the argument that "school" should be limited to classrooms and other buildings where the kids are present. However, "school" isn't defined in the penal code (yet ) so we have no guidance. I have been asked if administration buildings on school grounds and off school grounds are off-limits. My advice is treat everything on the school grounds as off-limits, even administrative buildings. Administrative buildings not on school campuses are a bit more ambiguous, but it is entirely possible an appellate court would take the easy way out and rule that any building owned by a school district, college, etc. is off-limits. In my view that would be overly broad.

Chas.

[tornado]

The solution to this has already been proposed.

The last time I checked, putting a sign up that says ‘Don’t bring your weapons in here,’ someone who has ill intent on their mind — they could care less. I think it makes sense for Texans to be able to protect themselves from deranged individuals, whether they’re in church or whether on a college campus or wherever.
...
Let me cover it right here. I think a person ought to be able to carry their weapons with them anywhere in this state if they are licensed and they have gone through the training. The idea that you’re going to exempt them from a particular place is nonsense to me."

--Governor Rick Perry, April 30, 2007

I'm eagerly awaiting the '09 session. Just let me know when to start calling my representative and senator, Charles.

[barres]

The Hawkins Administration Building is a separate building, but it is basically on the campus of the Huntsville High School, right at the end of the soccer/football practice field. When I played soccer in high school, our laps of the field had us running right by the building. As I believe I stated in my original post, I consider the building to fall under the school prohibition, so I was not carrying. The rest of my post was meant to be more toungue-in-cheek than anything else, because of this presumption of mine, but I like the discussion that it has spawned.

So let's work in 2009 to either define school (very narrowly) or remove the prohibition against carrying in schools! Tornado beat me to it, but I agree completely. Let me and others of like mind protect our children and other's children, even the adult "children" (hey, they're someone's "little boy/girl") working and learning in administration buildings and colleges!

[bmontana]

At my school, there are no signs posted. I would like to know if it is legal to keep my weapon in my car in the teachers' parking lot. The parking lot is situated between the main school building and the field house. Students pass through the parking lot throughout the day going between the two buildings. I've been advised by the local police department that it is illegal to have a weapon in your car on school property. That doesn't jive with what I learned in training.

According to Texas Penal Code, section 46.03(a)(1) an offense is committed if a weapon is possessed "on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution."

Physical premises is defined in 46.035(f)(3) as "a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."

My interpretation of this is that it is ok to have weapons in a car in a school parking lot, unless proper signage is present. Is that correct, or am I missing something? Is there additional code in some other section that addresses schools and school zones?

[barres]

bmontana, you are correct. The law clearly states that the parking lots are perfectly okay for you to have your CCW in. There is some debate about whether you could have your weapon on you (or maybe even stored in you car) if there is a school activity going on in the parking lot at the time (like band practice), as the two laws/clauses would seem to conflict. But, under normal circumstances, the parking lots are legally clear to carry, unless effective notice is given, which is kind of difficult, since most schools are owned by a government entity.

[pedalman]

bmontana, if your school is your employer, you may run into issues. You couldn't be charged with a crime, but if the school has a policy about no weapons on the grounds, you could be fired.

I work for a school, so I have to park on the street.