Bexar County Tax Office (Vista Verde Plaza)

[KBCraig]

The federal offices might be the excuse, but it doesn't wash by either Texas or Federal law. The possible exception is if the building is owned or leased by the federal government and the county offices are sub-leased from them. Even that would be highly questionable, because federal law only addresses places where federal employees actually work.

The federal law banning firearms in "federal facilities" (18 USC 930) defines "federal facilities" as "A building, or portion of a building, where federal employees regularly perform work."

For instance, if a USDA inspector has an office in a meat-packing plant, his office is a "federal facility", but the plant itself is not.

[rkhal]

I have been there several times -- always unarmed since I generally go on my lunch hour from work and it annoys me each time I go through the metal detector. I have always wondered how they get away with it but never bothered to ask as I figure that no one there would know anyway.

[zbordas]

I think the law should make it mandatory for places and businesses that bar handguns to provide secure storage for license holders. Maybe the law should make metal detectors and security guard mandatory too but that might be way too much to ask.

[Reloader]

I had a similar incident years ago when I picked up a friend for lunch in the Bexar County Justice Center. I was wearing an empty holster and empty mag pouches. The idiot rent a cop called the deputies to arrest me. After I explained to them I had my CHL, which I showed them, the rent a cop kept yelling "Arrest him!" X 3. the deputy told this idiot it is NOT against the law to wear an empty holster and mag pouches. The idiot said he wanted to know where the gun was. The deputy told me "Do not tell him. You are fine. Proceed, sir and thank you for your patience." This idiot was being "counseled" by the sheriff's deputy as my friend and I left. By the way, my friend was, and still is, the chief of child support enforcement for 26 counties.

[boomerang]

I think the law should make it mandatory for places and businesses that bar handguns to provide secure storage for license holders. Maybe the law should make metal detectors and security guard mandatory too but that might be way too much to ask.

That would make jury duty less onerous.

[bobdavis]

Ok - so major necropost, but I had to add this.

I just went to renew my registration at the Bexar Cty. Tax office, and the same setup was there. Allied Security security dude with a huge wheelgun, etc. On my way out I asked him what the correct process was for CHL holders and he told me that he'd either turn them away or call the cops.

I asked, "Why? It's legal to carry here." He stated most emphatically that it was not.

Then a bystander (who works there by the looks of her credentials) pipes in, "He's absolutely right - I'm a lawyer, I know". Ok. No offense lady, but you work in the tax office, so I'm gonna guess that you're a tax lawyer - maybe contracts, maybe land/property/whatever, but definitely not criminal and I have huge doubts you know anything past what you learned to pass the bar 20 years ago on Texas statutes that don't concern your focus.

I walked out, looking for something that would indicate that it was, in fact, illegal to carry there. Nothing.

So, really - who to call? What is the real deal with the tax office? And the BCAD has HUGE 30.06 signs up - can that be legal? (and the employees are rude - I held the door open for one and she didn't say, "thank you". What has happened to society?)

[DTCOOPER]

So, really - who to call? What is the real deal with the tax office? And the BCAD has HUGE 30.06 signs up - can that be legal? (and the employees are rude - I held the door open for one and she didn't say, "thank you". What has happened to society?)

If I am not mistaken, appraisal districts are privately owned businesses, (contracted by the county), but private businesses nonetheless. I believe that they have every right to post 30.06. And if posted, would be strictly enforceable.

[ScottDLS]

So, really - who to call? What is the real deal with the tax office? And the BCAD has HUGE 30.06 signs up - can that be legal? (and the employees are rude - I held the door open for one and she didn't say, "thank you". What has happened to society?)

If I am not mistaken, appraisal districts are privately owned businesses, (contracted by the county), but private businesses nonetheless. I believe that they have every right to post 30.06. And if posted, would be strictly enforceable.

From one of the Texas Appraisal District (Llano County) web sites:

Texas State Law provides for the establishment of appraisal districts within each county. The appraisal district is responsible for appraising property in the district for each taxing unit that imposes ad valorem taxes on property within the district. The appraisal district is a political subdivision of the State of Texas.

[battalion74]

I brought this subject up twice before, then yesterday I read the "Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs" sticky.

Regarding the office at Buena Vista and I10. Last time I talked to them, I think she was the floor manager, told me that its because The Tax Collectors office was in the building. She was the one that directed them to have metal detectors. The building doesn't have a 30.06 sign, as needed by businesses, to prevent us from going in. Instead they have a writ from a judge, County I believe, that states its illegal to enter.
I have discussed it with some deputy sheriffs and they say that its because the Tax Collector is a private business, so they can prevent us from entering. This is the response I've gotten from all deputy sheriffs I've talked too. I've run into some that just give me that old saying like, take the ride to beat the rap.
The major flaw I see in their logic about it being a business is that the Tax Collector is an elected official. I also believe that their working in a County building with county employees. Even while the Tax collector might be a business to collect property taxes, does the state let the counties subcontract for the collecting of license plate taxes?

[DTCOOPER]

Texas is full of Political Subdivisions that are still private businesses.. Water companies, Special Utility Districts, river authorities, etc..
Scott,are you saying that they have no right to post 30.06, since they're a political subdivision?
If it's posted, I will darn sure not be the test case...

[E.Marquez]

I think the law should make it mandatory for places and businesses that bar handguns to provide secure storage for license holders. Maybe the law should make metal detectors and security guard mandatory too but that might be way too much to ask.

Yes but... not a private biz that posts a 30.06,, Just anyplace by statute we can not carry.. I do think we should be asking our Representatives to mandate by law that if a CHL holder must disarm to enter (court house, secured part of a police station ect) that a storage locker must be provided. this is a very minor cost in the way of GOV spending and would "assist" the citizens in both complying with current law AND support there legal right to carry up to and after retreating from that magic line on the ground.

[The Annoyed Man]

Then a bystander (who works there by the looks of her credentials) pipes in, "He's absolutely right - I'm a lawyer, I know".

That translates as, "I'm a lawyer, I know what I want/hope it to mean." I'm tired of lawyers who act like they are some infallible fount of wisdom. A passing score for the Texas Bar Exam is 675 out of a possible 1000 points (source). In most states, you have to do better than that to get a driver's license. I'm not knocking how hard it is to score a 676 on the exam, and I recognize that it takes a lot of hard work to get there. But the fact remains that, with anything less than a perfect score of 1000, you likely have an imperfect knowledge of the law; and therefore, it follows that statements like "I'm a lawyer, I know" are nothing more than empty words intended to impress the layperson. And even with a perfect score of 1000, your score depends to a certain extent on your reasoning ability and persuasive argument — all of which means your ability to convince a judge/jury/opposing counsel/client of what you think the law ought to mean, which is the the same thing as "what I hope/want it to mean."

The officious twit lawyer who informed you that "she knows" may well be correct, but she could just as easily be an "anti-gun liberal lawyer employed by government" and wrong as hades. I would have asked her to quote me chapter and verse of the law with relevant citations, and if she couldn't or wouldn't, I would have said, "so you actually don't know. That's just your opinion. And since my question was directed at this gentleman here and not at you, none of this is actually any of your business."

Annoy The Annoyed Man at your own peril!

[ScottDLS]

Texas is full of Political Subdivisions that are still private businesses.. Water companies, Special Utility Districts, river authorities, etc..
Scott,are you saying that they have no right to post 30.06, since they're a political subdivision?
If it's posted, I will darn sure not be the test case...

A city is a political subdivision, a county is a political subdivision, and an airport authority is a political subdivision. I would argue that an appraisal district is a "governmental entity" in 30.06, just like other political subdivisions. By the way, the Vista Verde location is owned by Bexar County, not the district. Also, District's main office shows no taxable value, another argument that they are a "governmental entity".

I found all this courtesy of the Bexar County Appraisal District web site...

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property
on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

[srothstein]

Texas is full of Political Subdivisions that are still private businesses.. Water companies, Special Utility Districts, river authorities, etc..
Scott,are you saying that they have no right to post 30.06, since they're a political subdivision?
If it's posted, I will darn sure not be the test case...

I beg to differ. These are all political subdivisions of the state with taxing authority. This may be business but they are not private businesses in any way, shape, or form. If it has taxing authority, it is a governmental entity.

[CaptWoodrow10]

I would call up the state representative responsible for this area, and apprise them of the situation. That seems to be the only reasonable solution to the problem at this point. ( Without anyone going to jail and some pretty lengthy court proceedings. )