Seecamp Issues/Questions

[5111]

Based on the recommendations from several people on this site, the wife decided to get a Seecamp 32 instead of a Beretta Tomcat. After reading through the owners manual I think that we might be regretting the purchase, without having ever fired a shot. Of course maybe I'm misunderstanding things.

First, we were told that you must NEVER dry-fire the gun or it WILL break some of the internals (but they didn't have any .32 Snapcaps), yet on Seecamp's website it says that you CAN dry-fire the .32. Second, they give you a replacement spring because they know that you will break one eventually by touching the trigger while the magazine is out. Design flaw??? Third, they tell you that the firearm is extremely picky when it comes to ammo and so far it appears to be true. I had a couple of boxes of UMC .32ACP that I had previously purchased. They won't even fit in the magazine as they are too long. Fourth, the owners manual says that on the .380 they expect the recoil spring to need to be replaced every 300 rounds. They didn't give a number for the .32, but we intend to put well over 300 rounds through the gun in the next couple of months. We don't buy guns to look at, we buy them to shoot.

So please, someone help me feel better about our purchase. Tell me about the thousands of problem-free rounds you have shot through your LWS32. Tell me about it shooting ammo that doesn't cost $20 for 20 rounds. Tell me something good about it, PLEASE!

[MrsFosforos]

The BEST thing is they are small and so concealable. It makes my tomcat look and feel like a giant. I've only had mine since the first of the year, and we've shot a few hundred rounds without a hitch.

They are quirkly little guns and you're right about ammo - recommendations are limited. There is ONE WWB that is deemed "ok" -- Winchester Q4255, and is the most reasonably priced for practice ammo.

I got mine from an LEO who bought it for his wife, he didn'st say why specifically but that she liked shooting a keltec better!

I'm guessing it might be because the seecamp kicks like a mule and the recoil is very harsh. It is NOT a fun gun to shoot. It is not a comfortable gun to shoot. I can't go to the range and expect to put a couple of hundred rounds through it at one time. It's really more practical to run a couple of magazines through to make sure it's functioning as it should. It's a point and shoot pistol - intended for close range, so practicing for accuracy isn't as demanding.

The Tomcat & Seecamp both have a very heavy trigger pull, which is expected. The Seecamp trigger has a more dramatic break that feels different and takes some getting used to.

They say dry firing is "OK", it's dry cycling (ejecting rounds by hand racking the slide) that isn't recommended. They also recommend if you're practicing to load with 6 but only shoot with 5 help prolong the life of the magazine followers.

If you haven't found it already, try joining the Seecamp forum. Larry Seecamp is a regular member and there are guys who've been shooting with years of experience who can better answer your questions. And if it turns out you don't like it, you can post it there to sell - they usually don't stay on the market for long.

[Skiprr]

It's a great little gun, and built like a tank. But it is not a range gun. I would be terribly surprised if you find someone who thousands of rounds down an LWS32...except maybe Larry himself, or folks specifically stress-testing the pistol.

Dry fire is fine on the .32, but I seldom do it. It's just not very productive, other than getting used to the trigger pull, and that doesn't require lots of dry fire. The .32 has a miniscule barrel length and no sights, so dry-fire practice doesn't provide much in the way of feedback: unless you're really yanking the gun when you pull the trigger, minor deviations in point-of-aim and muzzle stability just won't be noticed.

If this sounds like I'm saying a second pistol may be in order for your wife if she's a new(ish) shooter, you're right. The Seecamp is a close-range, deep-concealment, mouse gun. That's its job. You really can't learn accuracy, trigger control, or follow-through (and certainly not sight alignment and sight picture...there aren't any ) with a Seecamp. IMHO, you need to already have those skills developed, then they'll translate over nicely to the little pistol.

About the draw-bar spring thing. It really isn't as sensitive as you might gather from looking at what came in the package with the new gun. Larry gives everyone a free spring to make up for stupid gun handling (I suppose because he used to see a lot of returns for that reason); and I couldn't call it a design flaw. The problem doesn't occur if you try to pull on the trigger with the magazine removed from the pistol. There's a magazine safety that moves into position to block the trigger when the mag is removed. What can foul things up is when someone applies pressure to the trigger while removing the magazine. How bright a maneuver is that? Squeezing the trigger while removing the mag prevents the magazine safety from moving into position. Since the mag safety isn't in place, the trigger can now be pulled, squishing the mechanism and draw-bar spring. Then if you try to forcefully seat the mag back in place, the draw-bar spring will be damaged. So you see, you have to make at least three dumb maneuvers in a row to actually damage the spring. But that became Seecamp's number one repair problem, so Larry started including that extra spring.

Like MrsFosforos said, you don't often find a used Seecamp on the market, and when you do, it doesn't stay on the market for very long. That alone should be enough to assuade your buyer's remorse. I have three, true, mouse-gun sized pistols, and the Seecamp is the only one that's carried. (I was gonn shoot mine in today's Mouse Gun Match at Impact Zone, but ended up with a scheduling conflict.) You gotta be sure the ammo you're using will feed properly, because the tolerances there are tight--and don't do strange things with the trigger when removing or inserting magazines--but otherwise it's a little all-steel tank that'll just keep on running.

[xrocket]

The above posters covered your issues very well.

You might boogy over to the Seecamp Forum if you haven't already as there is a wealth of information. For what it's worth, It's picky on ammo, it does have a kick, it's small in the hand, it's not a range / target gun, but the function it was designed for, it does supremely well. It's the one firearm you will carry every day when you can't or won't carry a larger gun. It's like putting your wallet in your pocket before you leave to go anywhere.

It's not for everyone, ... but, when you get it, you get it.

[Moonpie]

I agree with what skiprr posted.
I've been using a Seecamp for a couple of years now. Its a great gun. I'll never go back to packing a full size gun.
You can dry fire as much as you like just be sure to have the magazine in place.
BTW, .32acp snap caps are available from Brownell's, Midway USA, and others.
The ammo issue isn't a biggie. The guns are built so small only certain ammo will function in them. Use what Larry Seecamp recommends.
The WW Q4255 FMJ's are the only FMJ's that will function decently. All the old style FMJ's(Remington, UMC, Mil-surp) are too long in length and won't work.
The high end hollow point stuff like the Silvertips and Gold Dot's are the recommended loads for the gun. Be sure to try several different types to see which your particular gun digests the most reliably.
The Seecamp IS an unpleasant little beast to shoot for more than a couple of magazines. I've fired mine as much as 70-80 rounds in a range session. I was PLENTY ready to put it away too!
I've probably fired 800 rounds thru mine so far.
Like any other new gun you just have to get used to handling it. The trigger pull is long but not unbearable.
It sure ain't a Colt Gold Cup.

[5111]

Thanks for all the reassurances guys, it makes me feel better. My wife has several other guns that she shoots regularly, but she wants to be comfortable with her primary carry. When she shot the Tomcat she really enjoyed it and the recoil was not bad at all. I guess the Seecamp will be worse so maybe she will only be shooting 15-20 rounds at a time. :( I guess that's why she has her 9mm and .22LR.

Thanks again!

[TScottTX]

By all means, go over to the Seecamp Forum where you can even ask Larry Seecamp himself your questions. http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl