5 women slain in store
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5 women slain in store
I'm sure this is another case of following the advice of just do what they tell you and nobody will get hurt. I feel so horrible for the families and friends of these five women. Being that this is near Chicago I'm sure they are allowed no means to protect themselves. I hope they catch this guy.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... full.story
chicagotribune.com
5 women slain in store
Police hunt gunman in shootings at Tinley Park mall
By Stacy St. Clair and Deborah Horan
Tribune staff reporters
11:13 PM CST, February 2, 2008
Click here to find out more!
A gunman led five women into the back room of a Tinley Park clothing store Saturday morning, killed them, then walked out the front door and disappeared.
Police said there were no survivors at the Lane Bryant store in a southwest suburban strip mall along Interstate Highway 80, in what they are calling a botched robbery.
Still, with little information made public, conflicting reports and rumors about motives and witnesses swirled throughout the day.
Officers from at least eight local departments quickly descended on the shopping center.
Some went from door to door, combing stores for clues. Others hunted in a nearby subdivision for a stocky man described by one witness, while helicopters hovered in the sky. One helicopter, armed with an infrared camera, scanned snow-covered open land and forest preserves.
Police pleaded for help from anyone with information on the killing spree. As night fell, the gunman remained on the loose.
Tinley Park Police Chief Michael O'Connell tried to calm fears, saying, "We are very confident that the offender is out of the area."
But earlier in the day, an officer at the scene admitted, "We have no idea who he is."
"Our town is not doing well," said Tinley Park Mayor Edward Zabrocki upon returning home at the end of a long, sad day. "This is a tragedy that should not happen to any town."
Though police gave out little information about the shooting through the day, and would not name the victims, some details began to emerge.
The victims' ages ranged from 22 to 37. Four were from the Chicago area; one was from South Bend, Ind. At least one was a store employee.
The family of Carrie Hudek Chiuso, 33, of Frankfort, identified the young woman as one of the victims. Chiuso was shopping when she was slain.
"She is the most wonderful person, and that maniac took a piece of all of us," said her sister-in-law Jennifer Hudek.
Chiuso was remembered as a loving wife who devoted her life to counseling teens. She graduated from Homewood-Flossmoor Community High School in 1993 and returned to her alma mater 10 years later as a social worker, meeting one-on-one with students who had personal problems.
"Our students are going to have a really hard time with this," said David Thieman, spokesman for the school. "She was adored by both the students and faculty."
On Monday, the district plans to have counselors on hand to help students cope with her violent death—the kind of work Chiuso typically would have overseen.
Chiuso was also remembered for running support groups for divorced families, transfer students, teenage parents and anger management.
Police got an emergency call at 10:44 a.m. reporting multiple gunshot injuries inside.
Sgt. T.J. Grady said the gunman opened fire in a robbery that "at some point . . . went rather poorly." Police described the suspect as an African-American man, about 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighing between 230 and 260 pounds. He was wearing a black winter coat, a knit cap and dark jeans.
All stores in the strip mall at 191st Street and Harlem Avenue, including a Super Target and Best Buy, were on lockdown for an hour after the shootings. Police were looking at surveillance footage from every business within a mile and a half of the store for clues.
Tinley Park police said their detectives are working with the South Suburban Major Crimes Task Force on the investigation. The task force investigates major crimes in 54 south suburban communities.
Zabrocki would not discuss the specifics of the investigation but said detectives were "sifting through the crime scene inch by inch." Throughout the day, support poured in from politicians and neighboring police departments. Sen. Barack Obama, out on the presidential campaign trail, released a statement decrying the violence and saying his heart went out to the victims' families. Gov. Rod Blagojevich also offered his thoughts and prayers for surviving family members and others swept up in the horror.
As alarm swept through the community in the wake of the shooting, residents in the neighborhood bordering the strip mall felt most uneasy.
The area straddles Tinley Park and Frankfort, Cook and Will Counties. It has been a magnet for young families, drawn to new housing, good schools, a train line to the Loop and plenty of amenities.
Between 2000 and 2006, Tinley Park grew by about 25 percent; Frankfort by about 70 percent. Less than a mile from the shooting, a new high school, Lincoln-Way North, is scheduled to open in the fall.
Groundbreaking on the 117-acre mall called Brookside Marketplace was in 2004. At the time, Zabrocki said, "It is certain to become one of our village's most popular attractions."
Eight armed officers entered Target, locked the doors and ordered customers to stay away from the glass doors. Armed officers began searching the aisles, while rumors of the shooting sparked worried whispers among the frightened shoppers.
After an hour and 15 minutes, police released the customers from the store and ordered them to hurry directly to their cars, shopper Selena Kujawa of Mokena said.
"It was kind of like a mad dash getting out there," she said. "Everyone just wanted to get away as far and as fast as possible."
Kathy Row was relieved to get out of the store, but she couldn't exit the parking lot until after police examined her identification, searched the car and opened the trunk.
"Everybody was really nice about it," she said. "And the folks at Target were great, giving out free Starbucks. I didn't mind . . . but I felt sorry for the babies who just wanted to go home."
Connie Devine was working alone in the sales office for Brookside Glen—a subdivision of single family homes and town homes—when she got a call from her boss.
"He told me to lock up. Then, I got a call from other owners, inviting me to come over," said Devine, who was then joined by her husband. "It's a little scary."
Will County State's Atty. James Glasgow arrived at the scene in the afternoon to discuss the case with his top criminal prosecutor, who was there talking to officials.
Will County Coroner Patrick O'Neil said autopsies on the victims would not be complete until at least Sunday morning.
Lane Bryant is a national chain of clothing stores serving plus-size women. Company officials could not be reached for comment.
Other stores at the center include a bedding store, nail salon and several fast-food restaurants.
Lisa and Rudy DeAngelis, who live in a nearby subdivision, said their three children frequently walk to the shopping center, but with no arrests in the shooting, they are rethinking that.
"This puts an element of doubt on whether we'll let them walk over here now," Rudy DeAngelis said.
Zabrocki doesn't know how the village will recover.
"I'm not sure how you ever recover from this," he said. "It will take time to heal. All of us are going to hug our wives and children just a bit closer now."
sstclair@tribune.com
dhoran@tribune.com
Copyright © 2008, Chicago Tribune
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... full.story
chicagotribune.com
5 women slain in store
Police hunt gunman in shootings at Tinley Park mall
By Stacy St. Clair and Deborah Horan
Tribune staff reporters
11:13 PM CST, February 2, 2008
Click here to find out more!
A gunman led five women into the back room of a Tinley Park clothing store Saturday morning, killed them, then walked out the front door and disappeared.
Police said there were no survivors at the Lane Bryant store in a southwest suburban strip mall along Interstate Highway 80, in what they are calling a botched robbery.
Still, with little information made public, conflicting reports and rumors about motives and witnesses swirled throughout the day.
Officers from at least eight local departments quickly descended on the shopping center.
Some went from door to door, combing stores for clues. Others hunted in a nearby subdivision for a stocky man described by one witness, while helicopters hovered in the sky. One helicopter, armed with an infrared camera, scanned snow-covered open land and forest preserves.
Police pleaded for help from anyone with information on the killing spree. As night fell, the gunman remained on the loose.
Tinley Park Police Chief Michael O'Connell tried to calm fears, saying, "We are very confident that the offender is out of the area."
But earlier in the day, an officer at the scene admitted, "We have no idea who he is."
"Our town is not doing well," said Tinley Park Mayor Edward Zabrocki upon returning home at the end of a long, sad day. "This is a tragedy that should not happen to any town."
Though police gave out little information about the shooting through the day, and would not name the victims, some details began to emerge.
The victims' ages ranged from 22 to 37. Four were from the Chicago area; one was from South Bend, Ind. At least one was a store employee.
The family of Carrie Hudek Chiuso, 33, of Frankfort, identified the young woman as one of the victims. Chiuso was shopping when she was slain.
"She is the most wonderful person, and that maniac took a piece of all of us," said her sister-in-law Jennifer Hudek.
Chiuso was remembered as a loving wife who devoted her life to counseling teens. She graduated from Homewood-Flossmoor Community High School in 1993 and returned to her alma mater 10 years later as a social worker, meeting one-on-one with students who had personal problems.
"Our students are going to have a really hard time with this," said David Thieman, spokesman for the school. "She was adored by both the students and faculty."
On Monday, the district plans to have counselors on hand to help students cope with her violent death—the kind of work Chiuso typically would have overseen.
Chiuso was also remembered for running support groups for divorced families, transfer students, teenage parents and anger management.
Police got an emergency call at 10:44 a.m. reporting multiple gunshot injuries inside.
Sgt. T.J. Grady said the gunman opened fire in a robbery that "at some point . . . went rather poorly." Police described the suspect as an African-American man, about 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighing between 230 and 260 pounds. He was wearing a black winter coat, a knit cap and dark jeans.
All stores in the strip mall at 191st Street and Harlem Avenue, including a Super Target and Best Buy, were on lockdown for an hour after the shootings. Police were looking at surveillance footage from every business within a mile and a half of the store for clues.
Tinley Park police said their detectives are working with the South Suburban Major Crimes Task Force on the investigation. The task force investigates major crimes in 54 south suburban communities.
Zabrocki would not discuss the specifics of the investigation but said detectives were "sifting through the crime scene inch by inch." Throughout the day, support poured in from politicians and neighboring police departments. Sen. Barack Obama, out on the presidential campaign trail, released a statement decrying the violence and saying his heart went out to the victims' families. Gov. Rod Blagojevich also offered his thoughts and prayers for surviving family members and others swept up in the horror.
As alarm swept through the community in the wake of the shooting, residents in the neighborhood bordering the strip mall felt most uneasy.
The area straddles Tinley Park and Frankfort, Cook and Will Counties. It has been a magnet for young families, drawn to new housing, good schools, a train line to the Loop and plenty of amenities.
Between 2000 and 2006, Tinley Park grew by about 25 percent; Frankfort by about 70 percent. Less than a mile from the shooting, a new high school, Lincoln-Way North, is scheduled to open in the fall.
Groundbreaking on the 117-acre mall called Brookside Marketplace was in 2004. At the time, Zabrocki said, "It is certain to become one of our village's most popular attractions."
Eight armed officers entered Target, locked the doors and ordered customers to stay away from the glass doors. Armed officers began searching the aisles, while rumors of the shooting sparked worried whispers among the frightened shoppers.
After an hour and 15 minutes, police released the customers from the store and ordered them to hurry directly to their cars, shopper Selena Kujawa of Mokena said.
"It was kind of like a mad dash getting out there," she said. "Everyone just wanted to get away as far and as fast as possible."
Kathy Row was relieved to get out of the store, but she couldn't exit the parking lot until after police examined her identification, searched the car and opened the trunk.
"Everybody was really nice about it," she said. "And the folks at Target were great, giving out free Starbucks. I didn't mind . . . but I felt sorry for the babies who just wanted to go home."
Connie Devine was working alone in the sales office for Brookside Glen—a subdivision of single family homes and town homes—when she got a call from her boss.
"He told me to lock up. Then, I got a call from other owners, inviting me to come over," said Devine, who was then joined by her husband. "It's a little scary."
Will County State's Atty. James Glasgow arrived at the scene in the afternoon to discuss the case with his top criminal prosecutor, who was there talking to officials.
Will County Coroner Patrick O'Neil said autopsies on the victims would not be complete until at least Sunday morning.
Lane Bryant is a national chain of clothing stores serving plus-size women. Company officials could not be reached for comment.
Other stores at the center include a bedding store, nail salon and several fast-food restaurants.
Lisa and Rudy DeAngelis, who live in a nearby subdivision, said their three children frequently walk to the shopping center, but with no arrests in the shooting, they are rethinking that.
"This puts an element of doubt on whether we'll let them walk over here now," Rudy DeAngelis said.
Zabrocki doesn't know how the village will recover.
"I'm not sure how you ever recover from this," he said. "It will take time to heal. All of us are going to hug our wives and children just a bit closer now."
sstclair@tribune.com
dhoran@tribune.com
Copyright © 2008, Chicago Tribune
Last edited by texasgirl on Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 5 women slain in store
Pretty sad. I followed this yesterday on another forum. Lots of information, mis-information, unusual reporting (but maybe not .. ). Link below indicates there was a 6'th victim - who survived. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 0656.story
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Re: 5 women slain in store
"Gun free zone claims 5 more innocent victims".
Oh, you mean, that wasn't the headline?
No doubt the perp will be caught. But that won't bring the victims back.
The lives of these victims lie squarely on the hands of the IL "no issue" law. One wonders what it will take to wake the people up?
How can people put so little value on their lives, and those of their loved ones, to allow themselves to rendered defenseless?
Life and death are real, and final. Don't they get it?
When seconds count, cops are only minutes away.
Oh, you mean, that wasn't the headline?
No doubt the perp will be caught. But that won't bring the victims back.
The lives of these victims lie squarely on the hands of the IL "no issue" law. One wonders what it will take to wake the people up?
How can people put so little value on their lives, and those of their loved ones, to allow themselves to rendered defenseless?
Life and death are real, and final. Don't they get it?
When seconds count, cops are only minutes away.
Ahm jus' a Southern boy trapped in a Yankee's body
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Re: 5 women slain in store
Frankie wrote:
"
Good reason to assume responsibility for your own protection. The cops do the best they can.
"
Makes it more difficult to defend one’s self perhaps.Gun free zone claims 5 more innocent victims"..
It is improper to assume that any of these women would be carrying a handgun even if IL allowed it. Their greatest mistake was compliance at the point it became clear they would be killed (always fight back…when it gets this bad).The lives of these victims lie squarely on the hands of the IL "no issue" law. One wonders what it will take to wake the people up?
They never think the “wolf� will come for them.How can people put so little value on their lives, and those of their loved ones, to allow themselves to rendered defenseless?
They do now.Life and death are real, and final. Don't they get it?
.When seconds count, cops are only minutes away
Good reason to assume responsibility for your own protection. The cops do the best they can.
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Re: 5 women slain in store
Yeah, but someone might have been.It is improper to assume that any of these women would be carrying a handgun even if IL allowed it.
Ahm jus' a Southern boy trapped in a Yankee's body
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Re: 5 women slain in store
frankie_the_yankee wrote:Yeah, but someone might have been.It is improper to assume that any of these women would be carrying a handgun even if IL allowed it.
Someone "might" have been and:
are miles apart.The lives of these victims lie squarely on the hands of the IL "no issue" law.
Not to mention... "someone" would have to know it was going on AND be willing to intervene.
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Re: 5 women slain in store
How does this incident affect your opinion on using deadly force during a robbery that you are present??? Some people think that you should just keep your head down and let the BG take whatever, and not intervene. In this case, every customer was herded into the back area of the store and executed. Do you think that they had on the their mind that he just wanted them to stay in that area until he made his getaway, like in the Hollywood movies. Obviously, if you had the wait and see mentality, then it would have been too late.
So that is my question, do you wait and see during a robbery ????? .....or .....when possible,do you act swiftly without prejudice???
So that is my question, do you wait and see during a robbery ????? .....or .....when possible,do you act swiftly without prejudice???
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Re: 5 women slain in store
Quote/Question: " So that is my question, do you wait and see during a robbery ????? .....or .....when possible,do you act swiftly without prejudice??? "
Back to "Totality of the Circumstances" and "OODA loop": Observe. Orient. Decide. Act.
Back to "Totality of the Circumstances" and "OODA loop": Observe. Orient. Decide. Act.
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Re: 5 women slain in store
Robbery occurring in the room I'm in?
ACT.
There has been a credible threat of force on behalf of the bad guy or it's not robbery.
I'm not likely to run out of my house to confront someone at my car or a house I know to be empty of people but when lives are threatened then duty is clear.
ACT.
There has been a credible threat of force on behalf of the bad guy or it's not robbery.
I'm not likely to run out of my house to confront someone at my car or a house I know to be empty of people but when lives are threatened then duty is clear.
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Re: 5 women slain in store
Unless it's a bank robbery. It seems that nowadays, all you have to do is walk up and demand money, and it's handed to you straightaway.Hyunchback wrote: There has been a credible threat of force on behalf of the bad guy or it's not robbery.
Regarding the original topic, I'm very saddened by this event. It is definitely not best to simply comply.
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Re: 5 women slain in store
Quote: "Regarding the original topic, I'm very saddened by this event."
Yep, I'd followed it for several hours over the weekend on THR, too disgusted to originate a thread here. Each one of those gals was somebody's wife, daughter or mother ...
Yep, I'd followed it for several hours over the weekend on THR, too disgusted to originate a thread here. Each one of those gals was somebody's wife, daughter or mother ...
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Re: 5 women slain in store
So are you saying that in a bank, that you would stay neutral when they usher everyone to to back or to the vaults????NcongruNt wrote:Unless it's a bank robbery. It seems that nowadays, all you have to do is walk up and demand money, and it's handed to you straightaway.Hyunchback wrote: There has been a credible threat of force on behalf of the bad guy or it's not robbery.
Regarding the original topic, I'm very saddened by this event. It is definitely not best to simply comply.
If you don't stand for something, then you will fall for anything.
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Re: 5 women slain in store
nah, just you may not know a robbery is going on in a bank. The DB's have been just walking up, demanding the money without force, or the display of force.
that'd be kinda hard to ascertain that a robbery was going on 3 tellers down at the end. 'specially if you're at a WaMu bank! some of them don't even have tellers!
course, somebody comes rollin' in Al Pacino (Heat) style, well, you'll probably figure it out while Val Kilmer's busting up the Bank Manager...
that'd be kinda hard to ascertain that a robbery was going on 3 tellers down at the end. 'specially if you're at a WaMu bank! some of them don't even have tellers!
course, somebody comes rollin' in Al Pacino (Heat) style, well, you'll probably figure it out while Val Kilmer's busting up the Bank Manager...
FWIW, IIRC, AFAIK, FTMP, IANAL. YMMV.
Re: 5 women slain in store
If it were a lone gunman, I believe that I would wait until his attention was elsewhere, before I would draw, then shoot him in the back. If he had others with him, I would comply with orders until I could pick them off separately, one at a time, with minimal collateral damage. Absent that, just find good cover and holler to all to stay on the floor and go after the closest and/or deadliest, if I could do so with reasonable expectation of survival or victory. If neither of those existed, I'd be hoping and praying for help and good ideas. Praying would be the operative word, here. I would not allow them to tie me up or shoot me, if I could help it. That just makes you a sitting duck.Lucky45 wrote:
So are you saying that in a bank, that you would stay neutral when they usher everyone to to back or to the vaults????
That's as far as I've thought about this sort of thing. I'd like to hear expert advice on this.