Police chief wants surveillance cameras in Houston apts

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Charles L. Cotton
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#16

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

Chief Hurtt said, "Wherever you go in a city this size you're going to be on video camera or tape at least 12 times a day.
Pulled that number right out of . . . the air.
Chief Hurtt said, "if you just think about it, you go to a convenience store, you get gas, you go to the bank, you drive down the street in front of people's houses where motion sets off the cameras, you're already on camera.
First and foremost, this is private property and the cameras are not monitored by the police. Secondly, most are not monitored at all, but are stop action or time lapse "video" of very poor quality and the tapes are routinely recycled unless there has been a robbery or burglary. (BTW, motion activated cameras on private homes aimed at the street? :confused5 )

I know a lot of people are concerned about big brother. My response to that is, if you're not doing anything wrong, why should you worry about it?"
My guess is he doesn't like the Fourth or Fifth Amendments either. (King George didn’t think too much of the concept.) Well, he works for a public agency, in a building owned by the public, driving a car owned by the public. So, if he's doing nothing wrong, he won't mind having audio/video bugs in his office and car, and one in his shirt pocket when he's on the clock, and on a light poll in front of his house so he can be seen every time he steps out of his door. This is an absurd suggestion and Hurtt would readily agree, but he scoffs at people who legitimately don't want London-style video surveillance which approaches city-wide coverage.

Hurtt's intellectual dishonesty is obvious when he equates unmonitored, time-lapse, poor video quality security cameras on private property with high quality real time, normal speed police cameras that are monitored every minute of the day. No one sees video camera footage from a private security camera, unless a crime has been committed. Hurtt's cameras will be watching people's every move waiting for one of them to commit a crime Big Brother? You bet it is!

Don't forget, he's also suggesting cameras be required on private property; i.e. apartment complexes. Why stop there? Why doesn't he ask for cameras in other private property that is open to the public like restaurants and bars and night vision cameras in movie theaters. Again, these are intended to be absurd examples today, but will they be in the future? If we accept the insulting justifications that "if you aren't doing anything wrong, they why worry about it" and "it's for crime control," then these suggestions aren't so absurd after all. But of course honest law-abiding people don't have to accept further intrusion into their lives by constant video surveillance when they walk out their front door, unless they sit back and do nothing when Hurtt-style suggestions are publicized to measure the public's reaction.

A revealing litmus test for overly intrusive or restrictive efforts of elected (or appointed) officials is to subject them to the same procedures they would impose on us, then watch their indignant "you don't trust me?" reaction. Double standards abound; we need not encourage them further.

Regards,
Chas.
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Lodge2004
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#17

Post by Lodge2004 »

Cameras tend to change the behavior of society, but not in a positive way.

I lived in Germany for a few years in the early 90's and got to see first hand how a society acts when cameras were on every block and light pole. The citizens/subjects walk around knowing that big brother is always watching over their shoulder. Criminal/illegal behavior moves to the shadows and alleys as people learn where the blind spots are. The police do not patrol, they sit at the station waiting for a phone call to respond. When they leave the station, it was always in force and well armed - looking like a SWAT team. When they arrive on location, the citizens/subjects are quick to point out anyone who was doing something "wrong" to ensure they are not mistaken for a bad person. Cameras sap the life out of a society. They shift responsibility from the individual to those "in charge" who are sitting in an office somewhere observing their subjects like a kid watches an ant farm.

Although Europe is a beautiful place, it's a bit scary for someone who loves freedom. That really hit home for me one day while driving around the countryside admiring the forest. One minute it was a seemingly natural bunch of trees, and then all of a sudden, they lined up in a row. I had to pull over and go back to the same spot to confirm that each tree had been planted in neat rows. Most places look better than the postcards I collected, and were just as artificial. In comparison, the US is messy, chaotic and wild. In other words, the best country on this planet.

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#18

Post by KBCraig »

This is also being discussed here:

http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=2971

This kind of nonsense is why we're moving to New Hampshire. There are Big Brother-wannabe statists there, too... but they're a lot easier to fight. Government is very small and close to the people. The General Court (state house of representatives) has 400 members, for a population of 1.3 million people. Their compensation is limited by the state constitution to just $100 per year. The peasants with pitchforks wander in and out of hearings in the capitol all the time, testifying for or against bills, and they're not shy about sending bad reps packing.

You don't get a lot of professional politicians mucking about in that kind of political environment.

Kevin
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#19

Post by Paladin »

KBCraig,

I really like that comment from the other forum:

"If Officer Hurtt has nothing to hide the first camera can go in his house."

Yep... before any other cameras go in, he needs to put up or keep quiet. Since he says their's no expectation of privacy anymore, maybe we could get a live web feed of the inside of his house? After all, if he's not doing anything wrong, why should he worry about it? Next, we need to tape his every move at work. He's a public offical right? What has he got to hide? ;-)
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#20

Post by John »

Chicago too, saw this link on Drudge:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... eras_x.htm

I find it fascinating that they attempt to tie the events of September 11 to putting police cameras at convenience stores and other "private" businesses.
"Daley's proposed city ordinance adds a dimension to security measures installed after the Sept. 11 attacks."
and this again:
"The safer we make the city, the better it is for everyone," says Chicago Alderman Ray Suarez, who first proposed mandatory cameras in some businesses. "If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?"
and then there is the formally Great Britain:
From 2006 Britain will be the first country where every journey by every car will be monitored
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Published: 22 December 2005

Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.

Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years.

The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts.
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#21

Post by stevie_d_64 »

Charles...

Its been my experience, that if you want to make a real stink about it...Get a 3 minute speech together, and take it to the open forum at counsel meetings on Tuesday...

I would certainly think that if we got 2-3 people with similar objections and comments, it does make an impact...

So thats me, Charles if he wants to, and anyone else who want to get on the bandwagon...

Nip this "brain stor...fart" in the bud...

I think the city could, and should, spend "our" money more efficiently elsewhere...

I know my city counsel-person(s) love to see me come up and educate a few of their compadres every now and then...

I think it'd be fun...
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stevie_d_64
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#22

Post by stevie_d_64 »

Paladin wrote:KBCraig,

I really like that comment from the other forum:

"If Officer Hurtt has nothing to hide the first camera can go in his house."

Yep... before any other cameras go in, he needs to put up or keep quiet. Since he says their's no expectation of privacy anymore, maybe we could get a live web feed of the inside of his house? After all, if he's not doing anything wrong, why should he worry about it? Next, we need to tape his every move at work. He's a public offical right? What has he got to hide? ;-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You know...

I was sitting down trying to have a nice quiet cup of coffee in my kitchen, and I had this itch I had to scratch...

uhhhh, did they get that on camera???

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I bet this brainstorm gets shelved very quickly if we could gather a few of us to go to Tuesday's counsel meeting on a Tuesday, very soon from now...

I could type up a 3 minute talk real fast...One person going up there will sound like a goof...2-3 more sound like a conspiracy...4 or more taking up 3 minute slots gets their attention...

If we're serious about taking them to task for this looney idea, why not commit to staying ahead of it before they start spending money on it...Before they start thinking "Well, we have already begun to lay track on this Metro train system..."

Remember that bull???

And this???

Well, the Dubai company already bought the English company which is the one buying the operation rights to our U.S. ports...

Remember, its really critical to get them before they start to spend money...

And all it takes from a few is an afternoon down at city hall...

Think about it...
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#23

Post by jbirds1210 »

I would have to drop my keys in front of the camera and show the HPD smething that would warrant a case of CAULK to fill :smile: I think nice sayings on the back of T-shirts could prove a nice point. If you guys are going to the council meeting, please let me know. Take care.
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#24

Post by stevie_d_64 »

jbirds1210 wrote:I would have to drop my keys in front of the camera and show the HPD smething that would warrant a case of CAULK to fill :smile: I think nice sayings on the back of T-shirts could prove a nice point. If you guys are going to the council meeting, please let me know. Take care.
Jason
You must be working on some material for "Police's Wildest Videos" program... :lol:

And I have my 3 minute speech ready to go...I sure don't want to be the only goofball to rise in opposition to this "well intentioned" brainstorm... :lol:
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KBCraig
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#25

Post by KBCraig »

Chief "If you're not doing anything wrong..." Hurtt better mind his steps.

http://www.hurttprize.org/

:grin:

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#26

Post by Paladin »

KBCraig wrote:Chief "If you're not doing anything wrong..." Hurtt better mind his steps.

http://www.hurttprize.org/

:grin:

Kevin
Now that's the funniest thing I've seen in a while. Gotta send that guy some email. :lol: :lol:
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