Church carry

[mr surveyor]

I church carry every Sunday. OWB with a jacket, IWB with a sweater, or during hot weather requiring a short sleeve shirt my P3AT finds it's way into a small IWB holster clipped into my left cowboy boot.

[longtooth]

Carry at Church or change Churches Laughing

Just have to find a church that has a PPP (Pistol Packin' Preacher) and then they just want to know if you get a new gun so they have the chance to try it out too.

I know where one is & there are at least 3 Texasgirls that I know of who carry there.
I would have to count the Texasboys armed there at any given service.
You would be welcome too & I would not have to shoot it for you to attend. Promice.

[CleverNickname]

Is it legal to carry in an "illegal" environment i.e. an establishment that is normally 51%, if that establishment is NOT being used for its routine (51%) purpose (bar being used as a church)?

It is illegal by the language of the statute (PC 46.03) to carry in a bar or school building, period.

Ok, but consider these two scenarios:

1. A church starts a private school, which uses the church's building during the week. Is it legal to carry there on Sunday?

2. A new church starts up, and not having their own building, they rent a school to meet in on Sunday. Is it legal to carry there on Sunday?

I have a feeling most people's gut reaction would be that #1 is legal but #2 isn't, but I fail to see the difference.

[WildBill]

I attend church in a restaurant, 100 beer signs and a cross.

OK, I'll pose the question being begged.

Legal pundits weigh in:

Is it legal to carry in an "illegal" environment i.e. an establishment that is normally 51%, if that establishment is NOT being used for its routine (51%) purpose (bar being used as a church)?

Is the establishment i.e. building itself, defined as 51% or is the activity that occures within the establishment defined as 51%?

Shaggy - You sound like you'll try every angle. You'd make a good defense lawyer!

[seamusTX]

Is it legal to carry in an "illegal" environment i.e. an establishment that is normally 51%, if that establishment is NOT being used for its routine (51%) purpose (bar being used as a church)?

It is illegal by the language of the statute (PC 46.03) to carry in a bar or school building, period.

Ok, but consider these two scenarios:

1. A church starts a private school, which uses the church's building during the week. Is it legal to carry there on Sunday?

2. A new church starts up, and not having their own building, they rent a school to meet in on Sunday. Is it legal to carry there on Sunday?

I have a feeling most people's gut reaction would be that #1 is legal but #2 isn't, but I fail to see the difference.

The language of the law is imperfect. It is manifestly imperfect.

For example, the modification of PC 46.02 that makes car carry legal allows you to carry a handgun from your home to your car, but not from your car to your home.

When this kind of thing happens, courts look to legislative intent.

When the legislature made schools off-limits, they most likely meant that buildings owned by school districts with names like "Alamo Middle School" emblazoned above the door should be off-limits.

They probably did not intend that a trailer used for Sunday school should be off-limits when it was used for Bible study on Wednesday. They probably did not consider that issue.

There's another aspect to this question that people generally ignore (and which drives me nuts): You can carry anywhere until you encounter a metal detector, you are searched, or you drop your pistol in the middle of the quilting bee. No one will notice otherwise.

If a church member is found to be carrying at the church-school, who is going to call the cops? Is the church member so suspect that they will? If not, nothing will happen beyond possibly embarrassment.

Please note this, because it's my last word on this subject:

If you are found to be carrying
and if someone calls the police
and if you are still there when the police arrive
you will most likely be arrested.

This is what the police do, 99% of the time. They arrest “civilians� who have weapons in doubtful circumstances and are causing distress because of that.

Some police officers would not arrest, but most follow department policy and routine.

You may not be charged. It depends upon the DA. You may get low bail and go home quickly. You probably will get your handgun back. Or maybe not.

- Jim

[dwmathews]

I pastor a church and I carry every service. I informed my staff and after what happened in Colorado they have no problem.
So I guess this makes me a PPP

[rushman]

But not too far off - I attend church in a restaurant, 100 beer signs and a cross.
http://www.narrowtrail.org

My employer held our Christmas party there 4 years ago. I then took my defensive driving class at the same place last year. What don't they do there?

[longtooth]

Good job & welcome aboard. You are among Pastor friends. 2 that I know well.

[flb_78]

What don't they do there?

Swinger's Club?

[jimlongley]

But not too far off - I attend church in a restaurant, 100 beer signs and a cross.
http://www.narrowtrail.org

My employer held our Christmas party there 4 years ago. I then took my defensive driving class at the same place last year. What don't they do there?

I'll ask the owner.

[carlson1]

But not too far off - I attend church in a restaurant, 100 beer signs and a cross.
http://www.narrowtrail.org

My employer held our Christmas party there 4 years ago. I then took my defensive driving class at the same place last year. What don't they do there?

I'll ask the owner.

I already did and HE said "son, I have already told you if you don't have a sword (Gun In Todays English) sell your coat and go get one." Luke 22:36

[jimlongley]

I already did and HE said "son, I have already told you if you don't have a sword (Gun In Todays English) sell your coat and go get one." Luke 22:36

ROFL - Obviously I didn't think of it in those terms.

[ELB]

I pointed out on other church-related threads that earlier in American and pre-American history, men were fined if they were NOT ARMED at church.

Now there's a way to beef up contributions to the collection plate! (And since we are more modern and enlightened now, we can fine the ladies for not carrying also).

elb