7 dead in Postal shooting. CA

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

Moderator: carlson1

Post Reply
User avatar

Topic author
HighVelocity
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 3374
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:54 pm
Location: DFW, TX
Contact:

7 dead in Postal shooting. CA

#1

Post by HighVelocity »

This is bad. I still remember the Dana Point, CA post office shooting.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 558S02.DTL



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7 Dead in Calif. Post Office Shooting

Tuesday, January 31, 2006


Printable Version
Email This Article




(01-31) 04:26 PST GOLETA, Calif. (AP) --


A female ex-postal worker opened fire at a mail processing plant, killing six people before committing suicide, authorities said early Tuesday.


One other person was listed in critical condition, authorities said.


Deputies responding to a call of shots fired late Monday initially found two people dead outside the plant.


Two wounded women were located inside and were taken to a hospital. One died and the other was listed in critical condition early Tuesday with a gunshot wound to the head.


During a search of the massive mail complex, deputies found four additional bodies, including one believed to be the female shooter, Santa Barbara County Sheriff Jim Anderson said. The shooter, who was not identified, died of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound, he said.


"We do not believe there is any additional threat to the community," Anderson said.


Postal employee Charles Kronick told KEYT-TV in Santa Barbara that he was inside the building when shots rang out. Some 50 to 60 employees were seen running from the plant.


"I heard something that sounded like a pop, and then I heard a couple seconds later, another pop, pop, pop," Kronick said.


His boss came running over and told him to get out of the building, Kronick said, adding "We all hightailed it out real quick."


The victims' names were not immediately released. Sheriffs' Sgt. Erik Raney said all the victims were believed to be current employees.


The postal station is located just a few blocks from the University of California, Santa Barbara, about 100 miles northwest of Los Angeles.


User avatar

Topic author
HighVelocity
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 3374
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:54 pm
Location: DFW, TX
Contact:

#2

Post by HighVelocity »

I think about this all the time. My parents live in Dana Point and had been in the PO just moments before the shooting started. (for those who don't know, this was the very first post office shooting ever) Every time I go to the PO and have to disarm before entry I am very alert and my heart rate increases. If carrying in the post office were allowed my blood pressure would be lower.
For someone, especially a former employee to come in and run through the building shooting everything that moves is one of my worst nightmares. You have NO TIME to react if you're the first to encounter the shooter.
There may not be time to draw, there may not be time to dive for cover, there may not even be any cover.
User avatar

jimlongley
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 6134
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:31 pm
Location: Allen, TX

#3

Post by jimlongley »

I love the obligatory "Within x feet of a school" etc that gets thrown in.
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365

isa268
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 8:43 am
Location: Houston

#4

Post by isa268 »

you can carry in a post offiice if you have a CHL.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html
User avatar

stevie_d_64
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 7590
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:17 pm
Location: 77504

#5

Post by stevie_d_64 »

isa268 wrote:you can carry in a post offiice if you have a CHL.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html
Nuh-uhhh...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 17787
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

#6

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

isa268 wrote:you can carry in a post offiice if you have a CHL.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html
Be very careful with this advice from thegunzone and carry in a post office only if you are willing to be the first test case in the U.S. I haven't read this particular post in detail, but I've seen this type of analysis before and I believe it is correct. However, there is no case on point dealing with the scope of "other lawful purposes� in the post office context, so it will mean what a U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals or the U.S. Supreme Court says it means, after someone is arrested, goes to trial and is convicted, after having spent a bunch of money! Those courts will also decide if 39 CFR 232.1 prohibiting the possession of firearms anywhere on the property (with proper notice) is trumped by 18 U.S.C. §930(d)(3). Do I think it is? Yes I do, but telling the arresting officer, the U.S. Attorney, or the Judge that Cotton said it’s okay won’t help you.

By no means am I suggesting that people shouldn't exercise their rights within the law, but do so fully informed of the consequences and with a willingness to deal with them

Regards,
Chas.

P.S. Take a look at the disclaimer issued by thegunzone and the author:

Disclaimer: The discussion above is not legal advice. It cannot, and does not purport to, apply to any individual's specific situation. If you have questions about whether your specific conduct is legal, consult a qualified, local attorney familiar with laws regulating firearms. You should also obtain specific information from the government agencies responsible for issuing firearm licenses and/or regulating firearm possession in your location. The author and The Gun Zone assume no responsibility for any actions taken in reliance on the information in this discussion.
User avatar

stevie_d_64
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 7590
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:17 pm
Location: 77504

#7

Post by stevie_d_64 »

Wouldn't it be great, now that it appears that we are gaining a originalist (conservative/constructionist) lean to the Supreme Court...That we have the chance to get some of these nagging ambiguities correctly defined...

It may not happen tomorrow...It may not happen this year...But it may happen, and we'll finally get our day in court...

In the mean time...People like us are still not the problem...Never have been, never will be...

I'm slightly encouraged...slightly...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!

txinvestigator
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 4331
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 6:40 pm
Location: DFW area
Contact:

#8

Post by txinvestigator »

I will say this about post offices..... I try to read the law and obey it. I concur with Charles' interpretation; however, I do not believe in not being able to protect myself because some people won't properly enforce laws they don't agree with.

I am not saying that I DO carry in post officers, but if I were to it would be concealed as per Texas law. Now if some crazy comes in and starts blasting people I have a means to deal with the situation. Dealing with future potential legal consequences, especially when I am within the law, would be secondary and conditional upon my survival of the incident.

If nothing happened while I was there, then the issue of carrying in the PO would bever come to light.


:patriot:
*CHL Instructor*


"Speed is Fine, but accuracy is final"- Bill Jordan

Remember those who died, remember those who killed them.

BobCat
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 911
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:33 pm
Location: East Bernard, TX

#9

Post by BobCat »

There is one Post Office in Sugar Land that appears to have metal detectors (or did one day I was there). Agreed that "concealed means concealed" - but the metal detector can "see" through my cover shirt.

Anyone else ever see a metal detector in a Post Office? Maybe it was just that one place, on that one day, just to frighten me (and make me glad I left it in the truck) (with the slide stop removed, as usual).

Regards,
Andrew
Retractable claws; the *original* concealed carry
User avatar

stevie_d_64
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 7590
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:17 pm
Location: 77504

#10

Post by stevie_d_64 »

txinvestigator wrote:I will say this about post offices..... I try to read the law and obey it. I concur with Charles' interpretation; however, I do not believe in not being able to protect myself because some people won't properly enforce laws they don't agree with.

I am not saying that I DO carry in post officers, but if I were to it would be concealed as per Texas law. Now if some crazy comes in and starts blasting people I have a means to deal with the situation. Dealing with future potential legal consequences, especially when I am within the law, would be secondary and conditional upon my survival of the incident.

If nothing happened while I was there, then the issue of carrying in the PO would bever come to light.


:patriot:
Now you know where I am coming from on situations like this...

Thats why you probably think (and rightfully so) I push the edge of that legal envelope sometimes...Not to say I intentionally break any law, its just that I too do not appreciate ambiguity in law that creates these quandries we see on a daily basis...

If I am committed to carrying a firearm for lawful purposes, my licenses and permits should be absolute confirmation to lawful authority, that my intentions are just that, lawful...And should never be questioned...

Do I really care if I can carry in a post office??? Not really...I do not go to them very often, but I do think its sad that when things like this happen, knowing there may, or may not, be something you should, or could, do in situations like this...You are really not allowed to by ambiguities in the law...

Thats what frustrates a lot of really good people...Who take very seriously their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...And deeply desire others to be able to choose to do so as well...

If you want to be a slave to the grind, then by all means take a simple test...

Turn back the clock about 200+ years and see if the current social and political climate would be tolerated longer than it takes for me to type this all up...

I doubt I would get through the first sentence...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 17787
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

#11

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

txinvestigator wrote:I am not saying that I DO carry in post officers, but if I were to it would be concealed as per Texas law. . . . If nothing happened while I was there, then the issue of carrying in the PO would bever come to light.
:iagree:
User avatar

BenGoodLuck
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:27 pm
Location: Dallas

#12

Post by BenGoodLuck »

BobCat wrote:Anyone else ever see a metal detector in a Post Office?
I've seen anti-theft devices in some post offices; they're rectangular upright posts that you have to walk through; they're not metal detectos, because I walked through them and nothing went off. If they did have metal detectors, wouldn't they need to have someone to check everyone coming in? Think of all the keys, cell phones, etc, that would give false-positives.

I think the signs are meant as a big bluff. If you carry concealed and are discreet, they'll never know. And if you have to defend yourself, at least you'll be prepared.
Post Reply

Return to “General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion”