EMS and CHL

[TxD]

I was in Dallas this week and saw EMS working on a heart attack
victim in the parking lot of an office building prior to transport.
It got me to wondering what the EMS procedures might be if that person
was a CHL and was armed.

When would the weapon be removed, who would do it, and what then would they do with the weapon?

[nitrogen]

When I had done my Training in Phoenix many years ago, they gave basic instructions on how to handle a weapon if you needed to get it off of someone to treat them. (Keep it in the holster if possible, Finger off trigger, don't point it anywhere important, etc) they specifically said don't try and unload it or anything; call the police and let them take custody of the weapon.

[Sludge]

Hey gang…

I am a paramedic here in the Dallas Fort Worth area. What we do in an event we come across a patient that has a weapon varies. If the patient is unconscious, we remove the fire arm (with all the general gun safety procedures), we contact local law enforcement, then we document in the run report, the make, serial number of the weapon, what agency the weapon was given to, the officer, and his badge number. If the patient is conscious, some common sense comes into play. If the person is lawfully carrying for the most part we will let them dictate how they want their weapon secured (friend, family). If not, we will contact LEO and let them decide on how to handle it.

All new recruits are taught gun safety and the proper handling o a firearm.

[medicff0879]

Hey gang…

I am a paramedic here in the Dallas Fort Worth area. What we do in an event we come across a patient that has a weapon varies. If the patient is unconscious, we remove the fire arm (with all the general gun safety procedures), we contact local law enforcement, then we document in the run report, the make, serial number of the weapon, what agency the weapon was given to, the officer, and his badge number. If the patient is conscious, some common sense comes into play. If the person is lawfully carrying for the most part we will let them dictate how they want their weapon secured (friend, family). If not, we will contact LEO and let them decide on how to handle it.

All new recruits are taught gun safety and the proper handling o a firearm.

What he said, but I never remember being taught any procedures on how to handle a CHL in a Cardiac arrest LOL!! Come to think of it, in 8 years of EMS I have actually never encountered such a situation, even when the punks drop off their gangbanger scumbag buddies in the ER I have never cut the pants off anyone and found a weapon. I do ask everytime for that just in case surprise in the pocket, but I am one of few as most nurses never actually think of the potential for a weapon tucked away in a pocket.

Sludge, do you happen to work for entity serving Ft. Worth or one of the local FD's? We may have stomped the same ground a few times, I worked for that place in Ft. Worth for about 3 months and moved on LOL!!

[frankie_the_yankee]

I actually lived through this back in Providence, RI in 1995.

I was carrying legally on my RI Pistol Permit when I had a heart attack while walking down a city street one evening. I did not lose consciousness. I walked into a store and told the clerk at the counter that I thought I was having a heart attack and to call an ambulance.

In a few minutes an ambulance shows up and they load me in the back. As they start loosening my clothing I stopped them and informed them that I had a pistol permit and that I was carrying a pistol at the time. They asked me whare it was and I told them (an IWB at 3 o'clock).

Then I told them that I was removing the gun and holster and placing it temporarily between my legs, where they were not to touch it.

As I was doing so, one of the EMT's called out to the driver, "You need to call ahead and have a cop meet us at the ER. This guy we just picked up is carrying a gun."

I did not like the way that had sounded. So I lifted the oxygen mask off my face and said (loudly), "Excuse me! Tell the guy to call ahead to the ER and tell them to have a cop meet us there because the gentleman you just picked up was licensed to carry a gun and that he needed a cop to take custody of it while he was temporarily incapacitated. And I want you to say it just like that."

The EMT said, "Sure buddy." Then to the guy up front, "Did you get that?"

And the driver then called it in just as I had told them to.

When I got to the ER, the cop looked at my permit, took the gun, and said, "Don't worry about anything, guy. You've got all the right stuff here. When you get out, stop by the station and pick the gun up. No problem."

And that was that.

[Dragonfighter]

Dallas rescues carry gun cases. If one is found on a patient conscious or unconscious, the medics take custody of the weapon and secure it in the case. They document on the run form and maintain physical custody of the case until an LEO at the hospital or one working the case at the scene can take custody.

If conscious or with family, they will be informed of the exact chain of custody. I have on occasion (much to the chagrin of city management if found out) turned over a weapon to a family member when told by the patient and they were at scene before we left.

[Sludge]

Hey gang…

I am a paramedic here in the Dallas Fort Worth area. What we do in an event we come across a patient that has a weapon varies. If the patient is unconscious, we remove the fire arm (with all the general gun safety procedures), we contact local law enforcement, then we document in the run report, the make, serial number of the weapon, what agency the weapon was given to, the officer, and his badge number. If the patient is conscious, some common sense comes into play. If the person is lawfully carrying for the most part we will let them dictate how they want their weapon secured (friend, family). If not, we will contact LEO and let them decide on how to handle it.

All new recruits are taught gun safety and the proper handling o a firearm.

What he said, but I never remember being taught any procedures on how to handle a CHL in a Cardiac arrest LOL!! Come to think of it, in 8 years of EMS I have actually never encountered such a situation, even when the punks drop off their gangbanger scumbag buddies in the ER I have never cut the pants off anyone and found a weapon. I do ask everytime for that just in case surprise in the pocket, but I am one of few as most nurses never actually think of the potential for a weapon tucked away in a pocket.

Sludge, do you happen to work for entity serving Ft. Worth or one of the local FD's? We may have stomped the same ground a few times, I worked for that place in Ft. Worth for about 3 months and moved on LOL!!

I work for a local FD

I have found 2 weapons on diffrent people that where uncuncious (not where I m at now, this was back in my county ems days). I try to remember to ask the patient if they have anything "Impotant" in their pockets before I grab the trauma shears and start cuting. Only once have I come across a CHL holder who broke a leg. His weapon was securred by his wife before we started patient care.

I think I might know what "place" you worked for and my hats off to you for making it 3 months.

[Frost]

The impression i have got from this thread is that the EMS handbook starts out:

"Step 1: Cut off pants"

[TxMedic]

As I was doing so, one of the EMT's called out to the driver, "You need to call ahead and have a cop meet us at the ER. This guy we just picked up is carrying a gun."

I did not like the way that had sounded. So I lifted the oxygen mask off my face and said (loudly), "Excuse me! Tell the guy to call ahead to the ER and tell them to have a cop meet us there because the gentleman you just picked up was licensed to carry a gun and that he needed a cop to take custody of it while he was temporarily incapacitated. And I want you to say it just like that."

Honestly, it doesn't matter how you want him to say it. The EMT figures it'll all get sorted out at the ER by PD. He needed PD at the hospital to take care of your weapon, because he's not going to do it, nor is he qualified to determine whether or not you're legal to carry. We in EMS tend to keep it simple and that's what he was trying to do. No reason to make the guy give a dissertation on the radio when all you need a cop at the ER.

[Dragonfighter]

And as luck would have it, there generally is one there.

[Rex B]

As I was doing so, one of the EMT's called out to the driver, "You need to call ahead and have a cop meet us at the ER. This guy we just picked up is carrying a gun."

I did not like the way that had sounded. So I lifted the oxygen mask off my face and said (loudly), "Excuse me! Tell the guy to call ahead to the ER and tell them to have a cop meet us there because the gentleman you just picked up was licensed to carry a gun and that he needed a cop to take custody of it while he was temporarily incapacitated. And I want you to say it just like that."

Honestly, it doesn't matter how you want him to say it. The EMT figures it'll all get sorted out at the ER by PD. He needed PD at the hospital to take care of your weapon, because he's not going to do it, nor is he qualified to determine whether or not you're legal to carry. We in EMS tend to keep it simple and that's what he was trying to do. No reason to make the guy give a dissertation on the radio when all you need a cop at the ER.

But remember, this happened in RI, not Texas, and probably at a time when legal carry was even less common than it is there now.

[DoubleJ]

The impression i have got from this thread is that the EMS handbook starts out:

"Step 1: Cut off pants"

it actually is. that, and the c-collar thing...

[Dragonfighter]

Now, now...ABC's is first. The cutting of pants and c-collars are part of the secondary exam/assessment.

[Sludge]

I thought the first thing was the signature on the AMA form??????

[frankie_the_yankee]

Honestly, it doesn't matter how you want him to say it. The EMT figures it'll all get sorted out at the ER by PD.

Maybe so. But after my little speech he went on the radio and said it just the way I told him to.