Carjacking or Robbery Defense from Inside the Vehicle

[bigolbigun]

While sitting in my truck waiting for my wife yesterday I began to wonder how I would handle a situation of a BG walking up to me and showing a gun to either rob or carjack me. Of course my doors are locked and while driving or sitting I usually have my cover garment moved for quick access to the XD, but then what? Do you draw down on him from inside? I really don't know what I would do or the proper way to handle it.Or how to practice or prepare for such a scenario. Thanks for any tips.

[TX Rancher]

You will probably get a lot of advice that appears to conflict…some will say shoot from inside, some will say get out and then shoot, others will want you to drive away, and some will say give them the car.

Any of them may be the right answer depending on the situation. For instance if the BG has a gun on you from the driver’s side, and his buddy has one on you from the passenger side, drawing against them while seated in the car is probably not your best option.

Conversely, if the guy is standing outside your door with a knife…your door is locked and the window is closed…then just drive away and call 911. Of course you could also draw in this situation…

Whatever you decide your options are to different scenarios, be sure to practice them. Drawing while seated in a car is not the same as drawing while standing. Drawing while exiting takes some practice too, and contact shooting is a whole different thing.

Glad to hear you keep your doors locked, that’s a good start. Some always keep the motor running so a getaway is quicker. If one of your options is to draw your weapon you may find it helpful to remove your seatbelt while sitting in a parking lot.

Think about what you will do if confronted and have to exit the vehicle…will you stop the engine and take the keys? Put the parking brake on? Close the door after you get out? These sort of things could be helpful if you plan to engage the BG to try and retain your vehicle. Anything that requires him to take his eyes off you could represent an opportunity.

The possible options are essentially endless…A good way to work through this is to get a friend, some airsoft pistols, and go out and practice. It’s about the fastest way I’ve come across to prove out your plan…you’ll be amazed at how many good sounding things just don’t work in reality.

Your question asked specifically about when you were sitting in a parking lot waiting, but don’t forget you are vulnerable while stopped anywhere (stop sign, stop light, fast food, etc.) and you may have your searbelt on, so practice that situation too…

[Target1911]

some airsoft pistols, and go out and practice.

Just make sure you use eye protection and some ear plugs (to keep from getting shot IN the ear.

[yerasimos]

Just speaking for myself, I do not feel comfortable sitting in a parked/stopped car for more than a minute at a time. I would prefer to get out and casually walk around the car to keep foot-mobile and maintain roving 360 degree visual contact with everything around me. The ignition would be off, doors locked and the key on my person. It might look a little weird, but that is not too much of a concern.

When stopped at a traffic light, the vehicle's ignition stays on and transmission in gear, doors locked and seatbelt stays on. When not on public roads but moving slowly (ie, parking lots), I tend to leave the seatbelt off until I pull onto a public road, whereupon the seatbelt is promptly latched in place and I give it a little tug at sternum level to verify complete latching.

This course includes car drills with Simunitions-type guns on the second day, along with teaching many other real-world defensive handgun and empty-hand skills and concepts. It is pretty physical at times (both days are cup days), but well worth it. It is offered to non-sworn individuals, btw, though you should have some prior handgun training (preferably at their facility) and a good grasp of the basics. I do not know when this course will be offered in 2008.

[cxm]

It's really hard to say... the problem with this sort of thing is we never have enough detail to make a reasoned decision.

In general, if you can drive away, that is the best thing to do... car doors and windows are not going to give you much if any cover... so retreat is a great idea if you can do it.

If the guy shows you a gun you would certainly be in fear of your life... so your issues are tactical from that point... do what you have to do to win the fight...

FWIW

Chuck

While sitting in my truck waiting for my wife yesterday I began to wonder how I would handle a situation of a BG walking up to me and showing a gun to either rob or carjack me. Of course my doors are locked and while driving or sitting I usually have my cover garment moved for quick access to the XD, but then what? Do you draw down on him from inside? I really don't know what I would do or the proper way to handle it.Or how to practice or prepare for such a scenario. Thanks for any tips.

[Skiprr]

Here's some food for thought from Gabe Suarez: http://www.defensereview.com/modules.ph ... le&sid=454. He also has a basic book available about vehicle gunfighting; it includes some vehicular evasive techniques, as well.

[ScubaSigGuy]

I thought I had the answer for myself at least and then I started wondering what if this happened at a traffic light, gas station, or convenient store on the way home from the shooting range. I might be quite a bit less likely to give up my vehicle if I had several weapons in my range bag and a rifle or two in the cargo area.

Not because of the cost of the weapons, (they are insured) but because of the damage that could be caused with them. Just some food for thought.

It does bring up the possible value of having a remote start on your vehicle. It might minimize your time of exposure when approaching your vehicle.

I know that on occasion I will stop at a convenience store / gas station and on my way back to my vehicle I will hit the remote start, and then put my keys in my pocket after unlocking the door. I might sit there for a minute or two messing with the radio, cell phone, or BlackBerry all the while the car is running and my keys are in my pocket. This could be good or bad depending on the situation.

I would imagine that if you decide to exit and attempt to give up your vehicle peacefully then the time that you exit the drivers seat and have to pass close to the BG would be the most critical time.

If the BG has a gun aimed at you don't you have to assume that they are intent on using it?

[WarHawk-AVG]

Those videos I got called Advanced Self Defense Shooting Techniques (with Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn) show if you must shoot from inside, put the barrel against the glass, this way the blast blows the glass bits OUT of the car instead of showering you in the face, also they said wear safety glasses at all times (because even a bolt/rock/bird punching a hole in the glass can create glass shards that can get in your eyes which means you can no longer see to drive!)

http://smartflix.com/store/video/949/Ad ... e-Shooting

I HIGHLY recommend these videos for everyone!

P.S. Every one of their tests show that a car door is NOT cover..a moderately powered handgun punched thru every time

[srothstein]

I would agree that each situation is different but thinking about things ahead of time is always a good tactic.

My recommendations start with driving off if possible. And remember, do not let the fact that the BG is in the way stop you. If the door is locked and he is not shooting, you can drive over him or drag him as necessary to extricate yourself.

Getting out of the car is always an option if you cannot drive away. I think the most forgotten tactic is the use of the car door as a weapon. If the BG is close to the door, you can slam it into him to give you a minute to draw or take other action.

And yes, in most cases, car doors are not cover. The average pistol will penetrate both doors if the windows are rolled up and no major objects in between. Windows down is better protection against rounds, but leaves a different threat. If it is a real concern, you can get kevlar panels for inside the door panels that will change it to cover. Ford Crown Vic has them from the factory as an option on patrol cars, but there are several aftermarket fits that are available too. One panel to get to threat level IIIA protection in each front door is not too heavy for the car.

[Paladin]

Some excellent discussion

One tidbit from Suarez worth repeating:

When using a car as cover, do not get too close to it as ricochets may still hit you. Stay at least arm's length away from the cover. Six feet away will be best. Don't stick your hands beyond the cover, and don't rest the firearm on the cover itself.

[kdom]

Each situation is going to be different, so there is no one right answer... here's how I handled one situation years ago...

Was early morning hours, leaving French Quarter in NO headed home to Baton Rouge. I was boxed in at a red light, and noticed someone come out of the shadows heading directly for my door. He was definately holding a large object behind his leg, trying to keep it out of my view. My sunroof was cracked, so I shouted "Don't approach the car" while retrieving my 9mm from the console. He kept coming, saying somthing about wanting to talking to me, so I repeated my warning to stay away, took aim, and flicked on the dome light. As soon as he realized I had the drop on him, he turned around and retreated fast, dropping what appeared to be a section of pipe in the lane next to me...About that time the light turned green and I floored it.

I think the key was not letting him know I knew he was there (he kept coming), but that his day was going to end badly. If someone sticks a gun in my ear before I see them coming, I'll do everything I can to give them the car and go home safely, but if I see them coming, they will be (unpleasantly) surprised...

-kd

[TXGLOCK23]

Things to think about for sure. Great thread!

[FightinAggieCHL]

When dealing with vehicles, one LE department that I know of teaches their cars as CONCEALMENT, not cover. This is especially true if you are dealing with someone who has a long arm, instead of just a pistol. Some of the cheapest ammunition in the world is the 7.62 ball ammo, which just so happens to have armor piercing characteristics, produced for the AK-47. In several instances, this ammunition has penetrated every point on the car, to include being shot THROUGH the engine block, all the way through the passenger compartment, and out the trunk. If using a car for cover, stay low, and try to use the wheels to your advantage. Since they touch the ground, there will be less of a chance for a ricochet bullet hitting you(or buck shot being bounced from under the car). The wheel systems are made of thick metal, so they are more effective of stopping a heavier bullet than the other parts of the vehicle. Even better, try to move so that there are two wheels between you and the BG.

Hope this helps a little bit. Always remember, Concealment does not equal cover. I received a brief on in this subject, here are some of the links that were used. They are dealing with building materials, but they are still very useful:
Part One:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dKhMOfaYwvE
Part Two:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w22M1DAQ59I&feature=related

*edit* These videos are a little long (8 - 10 minutes), but they are full of useful information. I highly recommend watching at least the second half of the first one. The second one is mostly machine guns, and I doubt that many of us will have many encounters with the weapons in that movie.