The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:07 pm
I’m happy that AG Paxton has filed the suit, but unless the defendants are forced to pay the accruing fines, I’d guess that the city of Dallas, the State Fair of Texas, and Fairpark First will stonewall and get delays in court proceedings long enough for the fair to finish running before the court ever has a chance to slap the defendants down.
Then next year, Fairpark First will be reorganized and operating under a new name, and the same old song and dance will begin again.
You are probably right, but at least he did something. Folks said it was a publicity stunt so I am glad he has sued. I don’t think he will find in Dallas County a court to grant injunctive relief to prevent the City of Dallas or the State Fair of Texas from enforcing the unlawful ban on firearms. It is a lot like Harris County.
So they get to continually break the law without punitive damages for a few years. Wished it worked that way for us.
Agree. It is good that AG Paxton did what he could. If the State Fair still ban us carrying there, it's time for the boycott. 5% of Texans have an LTC and we tend to be most business's best customers. Hit them where it hurts. Financially on the bottom line.
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The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:07 pm
I’m happy that AG Paxton has filed the suit, but unless the defendants are forced to pay the accruing fines, I’d guess that the city of Dallas, the State Fair of Texas, and Fairpark First will stonewall and get delays in court proceedings long enough for the fair to finish running before the court ever has a chance to slap the defendants down.
Then next year, Fairpark First will be reorganized and operating under a new name, and the same old song and dance will begin again.
You are probably right, but at least he did something. Folks said it was a publicity stunt so I am glad he has sued. I don’t think he will find in Dallas County a court to grant injunctive relief to prevent the City of Dallas or the State Fair of Texas from enforcing the unlawful ban on firearms. It is a lot like Harris County.
So they get to continually break the law without punitive damages for a few years. Wished it worked that way for us.
Perhaps the way forward is to lobby the legislature to specifically invalidate any anti-carry signage or policy for ANY organization that specifically organizes and operates the state fair—for profit and non profit alike. Make the law preemptive and specific so that no fair operator can hide behind any reason to bar legal carry.
You’d think that the language of the current law is plain enough, but the fair operators seem to think that it doesn’t apply to them. Therefore, make an addition to the law that specifically bars any state fair operator from enforcing a no-carry zone.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:07 pm
I’m happy that AG Paxton has filed the suit, but unless the defendants are forced to pay the accruing fines, I’d guess that the city of Dallas, the State Fair of Texas, and Fairpark First will stonewall and get delays in court proceedings long enough for the fair to finish running before the court ever has a chance to slap the defendants down.
Then next year, Fairpark First will be reorganized and operating under a new name, and the same old song and dance will begin again.
You are probably right, but at least he did something. Folks said it was a publicity stunt so I am glad he has sued. I don’t think he will find in Dallas County a court to grant injunctive relief to prevent the City of Dallas or the State Fair of Texas from enforcing the unlawful ban on firearms. It is a lot like Harris County.
So they get to continually break the law without punitive damages for a few years. Wished it worked that way for us.
Perhaps the way forward is to lobby the legislature to specifically invalidate any anti-carry signage or policy for ANY organization that specifically organizes and operates the state fair—for profit and non profit alike. Make the law preemptive and specific so that no fair operator can hide behind any reason to bar legal carry.
You’d think that the language of the current law is plain enough, but the fair operators seem to think that it doesn’t apply to them. Therefore, make an addition to the law that specifically bars any state fair operator from enforcing a no-carry zone.
I like this ane I would stand behind it. Although I am very happy Paxtor has sued Dallas I have to wonder if it was for show. If there was some teeth to them violating the law it would make them think twice. Someone has already said and it is probably true it is a little late for us to see so results this year. However I have my fingers crossed.
There is no reason to limit it to the state fair. As mentioned earlier, there are many activities that will ban carry for a one or two-day event.
It would be simple to include language that any entity leasing government property assumes all responsibilities and liabilities as the body of government.
Not surprised..expected this decision by a Dallas Judge. Democrat Dallas County District Court Judge Emily Tobolowsky.
Paxton shot his case in the foot with his 2016 opinion that found private entities could ban guns on government-leased property as long as the government “has no control over the decision to post such notice.”
No recourse except to not go to the fair and hope that the legislature will address this issue so it is clear.
Not surprised..expected this decision by a Dallas Judge. Democrat Dallas County District Court Judge Emily Tobolowsky.
Paxton shot his case in the foot with his 2016 opinion that found private entities could ban guns on government-leased property as long as the government “has no control over the decision to post such notice.”
No recourse except to not go to the fair and hope that the legislature will address this issue so it is clear.
I think he blew the case by not standing by that decision. It was correct in that it applied the law as written to say they could legally post the property but that the courts would find the ban could not be enforced on government land.
His whole argument this time was that the State Fair was not an independent agency, but was acting as an agent for the city and thus had to obey the city rules.
Now I need to read the actual decision from the judge. Was the ban upheld as legal and enforceable, or was the posting upheld as legal with no mention of whether it could be enforced? The latter might still be correct, but the former would be wrong as a matter of law, IMO. I would almost be willing to bet the judge only ruled on if the posting was allowed or not.
Grayling813 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:00 pm
Paxton shot his case in the foot with his 2016 opinion that found private entities could ban guns on government-leased property as long as the government “has no control over the decision to post such notice.”
The biggest difference in the Fair and other orgs like the FTW Zoo is the use of metal detectors.
What if someone were to get a large group of LTCs to show up on opening day and attempt armed entry? They would be stopped at the metal detectors, and would leave peacefully (with video of each instance). Might be standing for a class action suit. Might even arrange some press coverage.
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For me, the reductio ad absurdum aspect of this is the degree to which the organization running the State Farm must adhere to ANY of the the rules of the City of Dallas. If they are truly an independent situation, then none of the Dallas specific laws and rules must be adhered to. But I'm wiling to bet that many of Dallas's regulated areas are adhered to and even inspected by Dallas employed people with consequences to the State Fair organization if compliance is not complete and correct. As soon as the organization is under the control of the Dallas government for anything, it is under that control for everything. I would start that argument with the Dallas Police. Dallas PD is there enforcing laws as set by the City of Dallas. I believe food vendors are the same and probably the rides are controlled as well. It might even go as far as livestock. Otherwise, the State Fair organization is half-pregnant.
rtschl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:16 pmAttorney General Ken Paxton Files Appeal to Prevent Unlawful State Fair of Texas Firearms Ban From Taking Effect:
I know either way it will be repealed again so there is probably a very slim chance anything changes this year. The only way I see this making a difference is if the state Fair looses money. I am not buying the whole “non-profit” status the Fair claims to begin with. They make a profit on just their parking.
The Legislature will get right on this next session. 
