Texas State Fair Carry Rules

[rtschl]

I was one of several that filed complaints with OAG's office about Ft. Worth Zoo in 2015. Several discussions somewhere here on the forum. My recollection is that OAG ruled that it cannot stop a private business/entity from posting invalid signs and that a license holder would have defense to prosecution as not a violation of 30.05 if carrying on publicly owned property.

That made a lot of us mad back then, as us non lawyers think the plain meaning of the statute is clear that publicly owned property cannot be posted. So a license holder would likely beat the rap, but may take the ride and pay 10s of thousands of dollars in legal fees for doing something perfectly legal.

[Jose_in_Dallas]

I hope cooler heads prevail and this gets turned back. I hadn't been to the fair in over 20 years up until 6 or so years ago. I mainly go for the car show, the food, and to check out some exhibits. I go during the week and get there in the morning to avoid the weekend and night crowds. And I the DART rail to avoid parking and traffic. Normally takes 30 minutes one way so pretty convenient. I have to transfer to another line in Downtown and I always see some interesting things there. Being armed, carrying OC, and the training I've had over the past few years is always comforting. Not sure I would want to go otherwise.

[ScottDLS]

I was one of several that filed complaints with OAG's office about Ft. Worth Zoo in 2015. Several discussions somewhere here on the forum. My recollection is that OAG ruled that it cannot stop a private business/entity from posting invalid signs and that a license holder would have defense to prosecution as not a violation of 30.05 if carrying on publicly owned property.

That made a lot of us mad back then, as us non lawyers think the plain meaning of the statute is clear that publicly owned property cannot be posted. So a license holder would likely beat the rap, but may take the ride and pay 10s of thousands of dollars in legal fees for doing something perfectly legal.

Who is going to take the proverbial "ride" on a $200 class C no jail ticket that would be tried in JP or municipal court if the ticket was even written?

[ScottDLS]

Here is the letter he linked to:

https://www2.texasattorneygeneral.gov/f ... th_Zoo.pdf

This is news to me.

Is the State Fair of Texas a registered non-profit?
And why does this make a difference?

Read the letter carefully. It does not say the signs can be enforced, just that they are not illegally posted. The loophole which they crawl through is that the law making it illegal to post 30.06 signs only applies to the government agency (in this case, the City of Dallas) and not to any other person or organization. If I go post a big 30.06 sign on the fence around the Capitol in Austin, I am not violating the law that says the state cannot post. Of course, my sign has no legal bearing on whether you can carry inside the Capitol or not. This is what the State Fair Association is saying they did.

Obviously, my analogy is slightly flawed because DPS would take down my sign as soon as they saw I posted it, but the legal principal is the same. The State Fair Association can post any sign they want because they are not the government. It doesn't mean that 30.06 applies to anyone because the law is still the same and says it does not apply on state owned land.

So you go to the gate at the fair as always and tell the security guard you need to see the police officer. You show the officer your LTC and he says, “you are not allowed to carry here.” Worse he climbs down and places you in handcuffs for walking past the sign. Then what?

What statute does the police officer charge you with violating when he puts you in handcuffs? Or does the DPD usually handcuff people for $200 no jail class C misdemeanors that don't apply?

[seph]

Here is the letter he linked to:

https://www2.texasattorneygeneral.gov/f ... th_Zoo.pdf

This is news to me.

Is the State Fair of Texas a registered non-profit?
And why does this make a difference?

Read the letter carefully. It does not say the signs can be enforced, just that they are not illegally posted. The loophole which they crawl through is that the law making it illegal to post 30.06 signs only applies to the government agency (in this case, the City of Dallas) and not to any other person or organization. If I go post a big 30.06 sign on the fence around the Capitol in Austin, I am not violating the law that says the state cannot post. Of course, my sign has no legal bearing on whether you can carry inside the Capitol or not. This is what the State Fair Association is saying they did.

Obviously, my analogy is slightly flawed because DPS would take down my sign as soon as they saw I posted it, but the legal principal is the same. The State Fair Association can post any sign they want because they are not the government. It doesn't mean that 30.06 applies to anyone because the law is still the same and says it does not apply on state owned land.

So you go to the gate at the fair as always and tell the security guard you need to see the police officer. You show the officer your LTC and he says, “you are not allowed to carry here.” Worse he climbs down and places you in handcuffs for walking past the sign. Then what?

They won't charge or arrest anyone for that for carrying past a sign as the AG has said signs are not enforceable on gov't owned property. The officer will ask you to leave on behalf of the fair and if you do not leave, it will be simple trespassing. This really needs to be fixed in next year's session.

[carlson1]

I think it is obvious while they waited so late to announce this change, however the AG should be taking action last week not later.

[Grayling813]

From TSRA:

On August 8, the State Fair of Texas announced that it is changing its weapons policy to prohibit attendees from exercising their Right-to-Carry at the event. A press release noted:

As a private not-for-profit organization, the State Fair of Texas prohibits fairgoers from carrying all firearms, knives that are prohibited according to state law, clubs, explosive devices, ammunition, chemical dispensing devices, replicas or hoaxes, or other weapons of any kind. This includes Holders of a License to Carry, Constitutional Carry, Concealed Carry, and the Open Carry of firearms anywhere on the fairgrounds including Cotton Bowl Stadium.

The item also warned: Guests will be channeled through weapons detection technology which screens for dangerous weapons in the presence of a licensed and trained security officer.

The State Fair of Texas' move does raise serious questions about the legality of firearms on government property. As the State Fair noted in the press release, it is a private not-for-profit entity. But the City of Dallas owns Fair Park, which it leases to the State Fair to operate the fair. The big question is if this lease allows the State Fair to enact a policy the City of Dallas is not allowed to implement. These questions are being considered, scrutinized, and discussed by attorneys.

Just Released:
TSRA Endorsed Chairman Dustin Burrows (R-Lubbock) has released a letter criticizing the State Fair for their actions. He has 70+ signatures on the letter. His letter, addressed to the State Fair of Texas Board of Directors, encouraged the board to rescind their new policy.

We at TSRA will continue to keep our members informed as we learn more about what we can do to fight this policy, and will keep you updated as things progress.

Aside from the legal issues, the ban is a bad policy and is a matter being taken seriously by your team at TSRA.

John C. Poole II
TSRA Executive Director and Acting Legislative Director

[Rex B]

"Texas House Republicans are pressuring State Fair officials to rescind its recent decision to ban all firearms from the fairgrounds.
....
As of noon on Monday, 71 state lawmakers and Republican House nominees signed a petition"

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/08/12 ... dium=email

[carlson1]

"Texas House Republicans are pressuring State Fair officials to rescind its recent decision to ban all firearms from the fairgrounds.
....
As of noon on Monday, 71 state lawmakers and Republican House nominees signed a petition"

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/08/12 ... dium=email

I heard tonight on the 6:00 Fox4 that they “may” take up legislation in January to prevent this from happening. I am 100% behind that, but there is a law now!! WHY ARE THEY NOT DOING ANYTHING NOW other than talking? I am feeble minded, but I am sorry I just don’t understand.

My wife and I have been married for 39 years. Every year from our marriage we find an activity to add to our marriage that continues. So for 39 years we have added 39 activities. Twenty four years ago we added the State Fair. I rent two mobile scooters and we spend a day leaving by 3:30 every year. I know this doesn’t mean anything, but bless God I take it personal. I am not about to go to Fair Park unarmed. I am no longer TCOLE certified so I am out of luck because the Great Attorney General will NOT act before the Fair opens.

Humans are the only creation God has that puts idiots in charge. You don’t see a pack of wolves with a flea bitten wolf leading. These people in charge of the Fair and Fair “Policy” could not keep a criminal out of the Fair with a gun will now stop law abiding citizens from exercising their God given rights and the abiding by the law given by Texas. Can’t you just imagine what the thugs are planning now? So much for Paxton. I apologize and will now sign off. Love and pray for each and everyone of you.

[Rex B]

The way the law is currently written makes this application very hard to circumvent.
If not for the metal detectors a licensee can disregard those signs, as I'm sure many of us do already.

By using metal detectors we can be turned away, and our only recourse is legal action. We should not have to be arrested and hire a lawyer to exercise a right that is formally recognized by the State of Texas.

They law should be amended extending the prohibition to any and all parties using all or a portion of the property to host events.
There should also be a penalty for those parties posting unenforceable 30.06 signs.
I would like to see county sheriffs depts take the lead in proactively correcting such improper signage once the law is amended or clarified.

In the meantime it would be good for Paxton to weigh in, but I don't see a way for him to legally stop this before the Fair opens.
Hopefully public pressure will show the error of this decision.

[rtschl]

From AG Paxton:
BREAKING: I have sent a notice letter to the City of Dallas directing it to withdraw the statement made by the State Fair of Texas, the organization contracted to run Fair Park during the annual event, that prohibits citizens from lawfully carrying a firearm on the premise. Texas law clearly states that license to carry holders may not be prevented from carrying a firearm on property owned or leased by the government unless otherwise prevented by state statute. The State Fair of Texas’s recent policy that infringes on LTC holders’ Second Amendment rights is unlawful. Dallas has fifteen days to fix the issue, otherwise I will see them in court.

https://x.com/KenPaxtonTX/status/182370 ... 9jEg&s=19

[Grayling813]

From AG Paxton:
BREAKING: I have sent a notice letter to the City of Dallas directing it to withdraw the statement made by the State Fair of Texas, the organization contracted to run Fair Park during the annual event, that prohibits citizens from lawfully carrying a firearm on the premise. Texas law clearly states that license to carry holders may not be prevented from carrying a firearm on property owned or leased by the government unless otherwise prevented by state statute. The State Fair of Texas’s recent policy that infringes on LTC holders’ Second Amendment rights is unlawful. Dallas has fifteen days to fix the issue, otherwise I will see them in court.

https://x.com/KenPaxtonTX/status/182370 ... 9jEg&s=19

Well done Mr. Paxton.

[Paladin]

[carlson1]

Well I take back everything I have said. I am humbled and very excited to see where this will not lead the so-called State Fair’s Policy.

[mayor]

Well I take back everything I have said. I am humbled and very excited to see where this will not lead the so-called State Fair’s Policy.

Paxton's got my vote.