NC: A bit of a black eye for us

[jerry_r60]

I ran across this article on the local news website from May 8th however the incident was in NC. According to this, a pistol fell out of a guys pocket in Craker Barrel and went off, nicking one person and hitting another. The article says it was a Colt 1911 MK4. Makes me wonder if it was really in his pocket or in his belt or something. Seems a bit large for a pocket.

I assume the safety had to have been off for this to happen. I'm a bit surprised even with that, it would go off. Sounds like some details from this would make good teaching tips for how to properly carry.

This isn't the best story for keeping businesses comfortable with folks carrying inside.

https://www.kbtx.com/2023/05/08/police- ... anicclicks

[Paladin]

Sounds like it didn't have a firing pin block. Was it improperly left hammer down? 1911's were designed to be carried cocked and locked.

[jerry_r60]

Sounds like it didn't have a firing pin block. Was it improperly left hammer down? 1911's were designed to be carried cocked and locked.

That may be the case. It didn't say in the article but it makes the most sense. I know there is also the grip safety but I have not looked into exactly how that should work.

[Paladin]

Sounds like it didn't have a firing pin block. Was it improperly left hammer down? 1911's were designed to be carried cocked and locked.

That may be the case. It didn't say in the article but it makes the most sense. I know there is also the grip safety but I have not looked into exactly how that should work.

Yes. It should have a grip safety as well. I've sometimes heard of them being disabled by the user. I don't know if that would have made a difference in this case.

[03Lightningrocks]

I recall someone posting something similar to this story a few years back. It happened at a Golden Corral(I think), but in any case, it was very similar. Gun falls out of pocket, goes bang. I can't remember if anyone was hit in that incident.

[clarionite]

My belief is that a lot of these "dropped" firings are from people trying to catch it as it falls and they end up pulling the trigger.

[Rafe]

Whether it was a Series 70 or 80, a Mark IV is a full-size, all-steel, mill-spec 1911. I don't think anybody would be carrying that in a regular pants pocket. And if it actually fully fit into a pocket, it wouldn't be prone to tumbling out inadvertently. Lotta angles and edges on a MKIV. May in North Carolina isn't exactly freezing, so I think we could rule out it being in a big overcoat pocket and spilling out when the owner was putting the coat back on or something.

It would also be a .45 ACP unless the already over-$1,000 gun (assuming it's in decent condition...well, before whatever scrapes it received in this event) had had expensive custom work and refitting to make it a 9mm. And the witness who was "nicked" (implying the barrel was facing in approximately his direction when the gun fired) said he was sitting a couple of tables away and that the report sounded "like a loud pop." A Cracker Barrel dining area can be large, but if a .45 ACP is fired in your direction from less than 20 feet away in an enclosed space, it would only sound like a loud pop if you're pretty hearing impaired.

I'm with Paladin. If it really was that type of firearm and it really did fire when dropped on the ground, my bet is that it was a Series 70, which didn't have a firing pin block. Which would also mean it was a gun that was manufactured between 1970 and 1983...not exactly current state-of-the-art carry equipment. I think it's also likely it wasn't in a pocket; more likely a stupid tucked-in-the-waistband carry. And since correct cocked-and-locked mode can cause snags and be uncomfortable just riding inside your pants without a holster--and that people who would carry without a holster would also likely be ones who think that cocked-and-locked is the unsafe way to carry a 1911--my bet is that Paladin is also correct that the thing was "carried" with one in the chamber and hammer down. The absolute worst way to carry a 1911.

Many stories I read about "the gun simply went off by itself when it was dropped" I just disregard. But if this idiot was carrying a 45-year-old Series 70 with one in the pipe and the hammer down, then yeah...I can believe the thing fired if it fell out of his pants.

[LDB415]

Sounds like one of many who probably shouldn't ever be carrying. Not sure what percentage that would be but it should be statistically measurable and significant.

[jerry_r60]

In addtion to the guy having his neck grazed, the article also said someone was hit in the leg. That would sound like the angle was upfrom the ground, through the leg (or along the side of it) and then past the guys neck. I'm guessing he was sitting since he was eating. I guess that's a consistent trajectory for a round going off if the gun hit the floor on the hammer with the barrel at an angle.

[srothstein]

My bet would be that he dropped it and reached for it, pulling the trigger without fully knowing it (he was intoxicated according to the article). The person hit in the leg would be the primary victim with the pistol angle down and held horizontally as he grabbed it. The person hit in the neck either got hit by a bullet fragment after the round hit the ground, or more likely in my opinion, hit by a cement chip dug out of the floor by the bullet.

While I understand it is possible, I have never seen a reliable report of a dropped 1911 going off without the carrier grabbing at it. It would require the pistol to be carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer down, along with it being an old model, as already described. But then it would also require the pistol to fall in a very narrow angle where the hammer hit the floor in such a way as to drive it forward into the firing pin. The pistol would have to be almost straight from side to side and tilted so the beavertail would not get hit before the hammer did while also not being tilted so far forward the the top edge of the slide would not get hit. That angle would leave the bullet going upwards where I doubt it could hit anyone's leg without it being at that table or maybe the next one over. And then I don't see how it would hit someone in the neck also.

And it could have happened just as it was reported. I doubt it but strange thinks do happen from time to time.

[The Annoyed Man]

I once helped to treat a guy who shot himself in the butt cheek at the Handlebar Saloon in Pasadena California, when his pocket pistol fell out of his back pocket and went off when it hit the floor.