Got pulled over in Fort Worth

[RPBrown]

I had to make a pre-bid meeting at the NASJRB in Fort Worth yesterday. I got about 1/2 way there and remembered my weapon so had to go back to the office to disarm . After this, I was running a little late so my foot was a little heavy. Sure enough, just as I crossed into Fort Worth, there he & she were. I pulled over, she made the initial contact so I handed her my DL & LTC. She must have been a new officer as I could see her get kind of uncomfortable but she asked where it was. I told her I was unarmed and she asked me "you expect me to believe that you have a LTC and don't carry?" At that point the other officer stepped in and asked why I wasn't carrying. I explained to them both about going to the base and couldn't carry there. She asked him if she should search my truck and his comment was what for? He has no reason to lie and has done nothing wrong except go a little fast. He let me go with a warning but I suspect there will be (or should be) a little more training involved.
All in all it was a good stop except for an over zealous rookie. And the fact I was late for my meeting

[Tex1961]

I had to make a pre-bid meeting at the NASJRB in Fort Worth yesterday. I got about 1/2 way there and remembered my weapon so had to go back to the office to disarm . After this, I was running a little late so my foot was a little heavy. Sure enough, just as I crossed into Fort Worth, there he & she were. I pulled over, she made the initial contact so I handed her my DL & LTC. She must have been a new officer as I could see her get kind of uncomfortable but she asked where it was. I told her I was unarmed and she asked me "you expect me to believe that you have a LTC and don't carry?" At that point the other officer stepped in and asked why I wasn't carrying. I explained to them both about going to the base and couldn't carry there. She asked him if she should search my truck and his comment was what for? He has no reason to lie and has done nothing wrong except go a little fast. He let me go with a warning but I suspect there will be (or should be) a little more training involved.
All in all it was a good stop except for an over zealous rookie. And the fact I was late for my meeting

I would have very respectfully asked for her badge number and would have contacted her supervisor and requested that she gets more training. I would also have tried to have a conversation with her and explain that LTC holders are the good guys. There was absolutely no good reason for her to act that way except for ignorance and bad training.

[AF-Odin]

Sounds similar to a situation I had back in 2005 with a DPS Trainee except the Trainee was a bit more excited as I WAS carrying. Be polite, be professional, follow the officer's directions, and know your rights. Deal with the issue with a supervisor later if need be.

[Mike S]

I had to make a pre-bid meeting at the NASJRB in Fort Worth yesterday. I got about 1/2 way there and remembered my weapon so had to go back to the office to disarm . After this, I was running a little late so my foot was a little heavy. Sure enough, just as I crossed into Fort Worth, there he & she were. I pulled over, she made the initial contact so I handed her my DL & LTC. She must have been a new officer as I could see her get kind of uncomfortable but she asked where it was. I told her I was unarmed and she asked me "you expect me to believe that you have a LTC and don't carry?" At that point the other officer stepped in and asked why I wasn't carrying. I explained to them both about going to the base and couldn't carry there. She asked him if she should search my truck and his comment was what for? He has no reason to lie and has done nothing wrong except go a little fast. He let me go with a warning but I suspect there will be (or should be) a little more training involved.
All in all it was a good stop except for an over zealous rookie. And the fact I was late for my meeting

I would have very respectfully asked for her badge number and would have contacted her supervisor and requested that she gets more training. I would also have tried to have a conversation with her and explain that LTC holders are the good guys. There was absolutely no good reason for her to act that way except for ignorance and bad training.

I'd respectfully disagree & opine that RPBrown handled it as I would have. I would see it more of an "ignorance thru lack of experience" issue, and trust that the more senior partner likely provided some mentorship after the stop. The in-house coaching would likely be much more effective in shaping the new officer's future behavior in a positive way, & I generally advise students to avoid the proverbial "peeing contest" with officers roadside.

In the end, it sounds like RPBrown received a verbal warning & was let on his way with minimal delay or hassle. If it was a bad encounter, it would still be possible to lodge a complaint with the department as every traffic stop or encounter is called in, so there would be a log reflecting which pair of officers made the stop.

Regarding training regarding how to interact with an LTC holder, or anyone else carrying under constitutional carry, as the core issue, I would agree on this point.

[Tex1961]

I had to make a pre-bid meeting at the NASJRB in Fort Worth yesterday. I got about 1/2 way there and remembered my weapon so had to go back to the office to disarm . After this, I was running a little late so my foot was a little heavy. Sure enough, just as I crossed into Fort Worth, there he & she were. I pulled over, she made the initial contact so I handed her my DL & LTC. She must have been a new officer as I could see her get kind of uncomfortable but she asked where it was. I told her I was unarmed and she asked me "you expect me to believe that you have a LTC and don't carry?" At that point the other officer stepped in and asked why I wasn't carrying. I explained to them both about going to the base and couldn't carry there. She asked him if she should search my truck and his comment was what for? He has no reason to lie and has done nothing wrong except go a little fast. He let me go with a warning but I suspect there will be (or should be) a little more training involved.
All in all it was a good stop except for an over zealous rookie. And the fact I was late for my meeting

I would have very respectfully asked for her badge number and would have contacted her supervisor and requested that she gets more training. I would also have tried to have a conversation with her and explain that LTC holders are the good guys. There was absolutely no good reason for her to act that way except for ignorance and bad training.

I'd respectfully disagree & opine that RPBrown handled it as I would have. I would see it more of an "ignorance thru lack of experience" issue, and trust that the more senior partner likely provided some mentorship after the stop. The in-house coaching would likely be much more effective in shaping the new officer's future behavior in a positive way, & I generally advise students to avoid the proverbial "peeing contest" with officers roadside.

In the end, it sounds like RPBrown received a verbal warning & was let on his way with minimal delay or hassle. If it was a bad encounter, it would still be possible to lodge a complaint with the department as every traffic stop or encounter is called in, so there would be a log reflecting which pair of officers made the stop.

Regarding training regarding how to interact with an LTC holder, or anyone else carrying under constitutional carry, as the core issue, I would agree on this point.

I can see your argument, and do agree that overall he did an excellent job of handling the situation. But I spend at least 2 days or more a week in the classroom either teaching LTC, Constitutional carry or just basic pistol. It would have been very difficult to have just walked away without attempting to have a conversation with the LEO. Understand, I have mad respect for all law enforcement, however I've spoken with enough to know that most / many only have an elementary knowledge of Texas law as it relates to firearms. I'm very familiar with Leo interactions and what their powers are and my duties as a citizen.. But that doesn't mean I should get harassed because of their lack of training.. Now. Had she been willing to have an adult conversation with me then no harm, no fowl.. I would have gone on my merry way. But if not and wanted to act all tough guy.. Then yes, I would have asked for her badge number and had a conversation later on with a supervisor.

[Paladin]

With Car carry and Constitutional Carry its crazy that police wouldn't expect almost everyone (except the criminals) to legally have a firearm in their car.

[powerboatr]

With Car carry and Constitutional Carry its crazy that police wouldn't expect almost everyone (except the criminals) to legally have a firearm in their car.

RIGHT..

i got pulled over by a dps guy near sulphur springs on a 2 lane road 60 in a 55

he asked why i did not tell him i had a chl (at the time) when i handed him my DL, and i stated i was not carrying so i was not required to mention it, at first i thought he was going to dis agree, but his mind must have reminded him of the law as he stated he was unsure or something.

hindsight, i should have in good faith showed him my chl and then said i was not carrying. it would have made him feel more comfortable on a desolate 2 lane .
he then asked why i was not carrying and i explained we had been to VA in bonham and its NO WEAPONS allowed on the reservation/gov property so i leave it at home
he had no idea the va hospital grounds were no weapons at all. he even stated, thats sort of dumb, you have to drive 80 plus miles with no protection.
we ended up having a very positive talk alongside the road for what felt like 10 minutes about fishing, range time, pistols etc
got a warning
we sent a VERY positive letter to his boss the next day

its great to hear of good pullovers , but that rookie would make me nervous, by her words . you would think fresh out of school the LTC would be better ingrained in the brain


i have had to argue on the side of road at 3am in tawokoni about social security number becasue police guy was not up to par , frankly i felt like i was going jail, but i was polite and calm speaking.

he insisted i give him my SSN as part of the ticket, i refused based on his reasoning. that they needed it to track me down if i failed to pay.
i stated...hmm you have my DL, my address and tag...dont you think yall could find me? he didnt understand, so we had a mexican standoff for what seemed like 30 minutes back and forth about a SSN being written on his copy of my ticket.

he walked back to his car and I told my wife she may be driving home with grandkids alone, as i was not giving the number out for some yahoo in the police office to have my SSN , DOB, DL and address and i get a bill for a new car
when he came back, he was still insistent and starting to get crabby, but finally dropped the topic. i kept reminding him of identity theft and the above each time he insisted.

for me i guess my next move would have been request a supervisor, but in east tawokoni at 3AM, i bet it would be the same mentality

[carlson1]

What would be her probable cause for a search? Because RPBrown had a LTC and was not armed does not articulate that he was committing a crime. When I went to the academy 100 years ago we had weeks of search and seizure law. Most if the TCLOSE (TCOLE Now) test covered search and seizure.

[puma guy]

What would be her probable cause for a search? Because RPBrown had a LTC and was not armed does not articulate that he was committing a crime. When I went to the academy 100 years ago we had weeks of search and seizure law. Most if the TCLOSE (TCOLE Now) test covered search and seizure.

Sadly some police aren't up to speed in training and some in common sense and some just iintelligence. I watched a video last night of a visually impaired man walking with his fold up came sticking out of his back pocket because if there's daylight he can get by without it. The female office stops him because she thinks the cane is a firearm and he's illegally he's carrying. He shows her the cane which it obviously was even while in his back pocket and then she demands his ID. Back and forth between the two because he knew his righta and quotes almost verbatim the requirements to have to ID oneself to a PO. He reiterated it several times even after another cop, a sergeant, shows up and tells him he has to ID. Sargent puts him in handcuffs and searches all his pockets and gets his wallet and effects then puts him the car. After they un-cuff him and say "see how simple that was" He wants their names and badge numbers and the sergeant tells the office to arrest him for obstruction. Charges dropped. There will be a big payoff when the guy sues. Both cops violated policy, several laws and the Constitution. I am a huge supporter of the police, belong to a support organization for our local PD and also the PD's citizen patrol group, but I know some cops need to find other work.

[03Lightningrocks]

I have not been pulled over in years but if I did and some cop wanted to search my car, I would tell them to kiss me where the sun never shines. I have figured out that cops NEVER ask questions because they are wanting to know how your life is going. They are on a fishing expedition. Fortunately, I live in Plano and the cops around here don't act like that for the most part. At least not that I have run into. Last time I was pulled over, the cop came to the window and said hello. I am Officer so and so and the reason I pulled you over was because I clocked you going 115 in a 75. Could I get your license and proof of insurance? Gave me my ticket, said to maybe slow it down 35 miles an hour and have a good day. That was Louisiana. My penalty was I had to write the Parish judge a letter saying I was wrong and would not drive that fast in his Parish ever again. Ticket was dismissed. LOL

[eyedoc]

I got hit in a little fender bender a couple of years ago in Houston. I gave the officer my license and CHL and told her my pistol was in a IWB holster at the small of my back. She just said: "Good, now I don't have to worry about you."

[srothstein]

What would be her probable cause for a search? Because RPBrown had a LTC and was not armed does not articulate that he was committing a crime. When I went to the academy 100 years ago we had weeks of search and seizure law. Most if the TCLOSE (TCOLE Now) test covered search and seizure.

She would not need probable cause if RPBrown consented to a search. And I know a lot of rookies who ask for consent at almost every stop. I had one I was training about 20 years ago that told me he did it because he found a lot of the time there was some small amount of drugs (usually marijuana) in the car and got got an arrest. I pointed out that by waiting for real probable cause, I may only get half the arrests that he did, but they were all people who really deserved a trip to jail.

Rookies seemed to prefer quantity over quality (and I am not exempting myself from when I was a rookie).

On a side note, I am coming out of retirement and going back on patrol soon. Things have changed a lot in the 15 years since I left law enforcement. The town I will be working in is a small town on IH-35 south of San Antonio and the major problem they are concentrating on now is smuggling - large drug shipments or illegal aliens. Now I have to learn a whole new set of cues for who to stop.

[03Lightningrocks]

What would be her probable cause for a search? Because RPBrown had a LTC and was not armed does not articulate that he was committing a crime. When I went to the academy 100 years ago we had weeks of search and seizure law. Most if the TCLOSE (TCOLE Now) test covered search and seizure.

She would not need probable cause if RPBrown consented to a search. And I know a lot of rookies who ask for consent at almost every stop. I had one I was training about 20 years ago that told me he did it because he found a lot of the time there was some small amount of drugs (usually marijuana) in the car and got got an arrest. I pointed out that by waiting for real probable cause, I may only get half the arrests that he did, but they were all people who really deserved a trip to jail.

Rookies seemed to prefer quantity over quality (and I am not exempting myself from when I was a rookie).

On a side note, I am coming out of retirement and going back on patrol soon. Things have changed a lot in the 15 years since I left law enforcement. The town I will be working in is a small town on IH-35 south of San Antonio and the major problem they are concentrating on now is smuggling - large drug shipments or illegal aliens. Now I have to learn a whole new set of cues for who to stop.

Lord have mercy. Be careful out there. Maybe it is just because we hear about it more but these drug smugglers seem to be very violent and some of them may be stupid enough to try and shoot their way out of a police encounter. Especially out on that stretch of Interstate Highway. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. One part about you doing this is that you are definitely going to have some crazy encounter stories to share with us all. We are experiencing over 300 deaths a day in this country from Fent. poisoning. My bet is, Fentanyl will be a number one seizure item. When I was a teen, the biggest concern was getting fake drugs. These kids now days are getting fent in darn near any drug they experiment with. Thank you for your service. getting even part of this stuff off the street may save the lives of somebodies misguided teen ager.

[K.Mooneyham]

What would be her probable cause for a search? Because RPBrown had a LTC and was not armed does not articulate that he was committing a crime. When I went to the academy 100 years ago we had weeks of search and seizure law. Most if the TCLOSE (TCOLE Now) test covered search and seizure.

She would not need probable cause if RPBrown consented to a search. And I know a lot of rookies who ask for consent at almost every stop. I had one I was training about 20 years ago that told me he did it because he found a lot of the time there was some small amount of drugs (usually marijuana) in the car and got got an arrest. I pointed out that by waiting for real probable cause, I may only get half the arrests that he did, but they were all people who really deserved a trip to jail.

Rookies seemed to prefer quantity over quality (and I am not exempting myself from when I was a rookie).

On a side note, I am coming out of retirement and going back on patrol soon. Things have changed a lot in the 15 years since I left law enforcement. The town I will be working in is a small town on IH-35 south of San Antonio and the major problem they are concentrating on now is smuggling - large drug shipments or illegal aliens. Now I have to learn a whole new set of cues for who to stop.

Devine, Pearsall, Dilley, or Cotulla...

[The Annoyed Man]

I’ve only ever been pulled over twice since I moved to Texas in 2006. Neither was for the manner in which I was driving, but rather for an expired registration window-sticker the first time, and a burned out taillight the second time. Both were with Southlake PD.

I just don’t think it’s a big deal to show both my LTC and TDL when asked for ID by Texas LEOs. With the first stop, the officer looked at my (then) CHL and asked me if I was armed. I said yes, and he asked me where it was. I said left hip, OWB. He said, "tell you what…you don’t show me yours and I won’t show you mine" and handed me back the CHL.

The second time I was pulled over, I handed both licenses to the cop. He glanced at the CHL and said "I don’t need this" and handed it back to me…and that was the end of it. Both times I was issued a no-fine fix-it ticket. I think that last time was in maybe 2010.

I just tend not to drive in a manner that’s going to get me noticed. I drive a generic-looking gray SUV that doesn’t really stand out; plus I look like Santa Claus…and NOBODY wants to give a ticket to Santa Claus!