crazy2medic wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:47 am
When the first shot was fired, the Cops should have stormed the class room! This has been the de facto Doctrine since Columbine!
Three years ago I attended a presentation that included the trainer for the SO. He stated that the first officer to arrive goes in without waiting for backup, that they were training at longer distances with their sidearms, and that every patrol unit now had a rifle included as standard gear.
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philip964 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:47 pm
Uvalde mother who got out of cuffs to rescue kids from shooting is now being harassed by police, lawyer says
Angeli Rose Gomez, a Uvalde native, was working on a farm roughly half an hour away when she started getting calls about the shooting and rushed to the school.
..."We had these [$50,000] to $100,000 cruisers surrounding this school, taxpayer items — taxpayer shields and bulletproof vests and sniper rifles – none of those being used to go into the school, but in fact, the SUVs, for example, were being used to block people from going in to save their own children," Di Carlo told Fox News Digital on Monday.
...Gomez, who is on probation for a domestic incident, also was threatened with a probation violation on the day of the shooting.
...Di Carlo, who also represents several other community members in Uvalde, said he's considering multiple lawsuits related to Gomez's ordeal, including potentially a civil rights lawsuit for infringing on her free speech or a lawsuit for false imprisonment stemming from her temporary arrest outside the school.
The authorities in Uvalde are really working overtime to bankrupt the City and School district.
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The Uvalde school district's police chief has stepped down from his position in the City Council just weeks after being sworn in following allegations that he erred in his response to the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School that left 19 students and two teachers dead.
A Uvalde police officer was at the scene where the suspect, Salvador Ramos, had crashed his car. The officer had a rifle and sighted to shoot the gunman but paused to seek permission.
"The UPD officer did not hear a response and turned to get confirmation from his supervisor. When he turned back to address the suspect, the suspect had already entered the west hall exterior door at 11:33:00," according to the assessment from Texas State University's Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training.
"In this instance, the UPD officer would have heard gunshots and/or reports of gunshots and observed an individual approaching the school building armed with a rifle," said the assessment. "A reasonable officer would conclude in this case, based upon the totality of the circumstances, that use of deadly force was warranted."
“Be ready; now is the beginning of happenings.”
― Robert E. Howard, Swords of Shahrazar
A teacher propped open the exterior door at 11:27:14. ALERRT staff noted rocks (some of which were painted) were placed at most external doors of the building. Based on this observation, it appears that propping doors open is common practice at this school. While the teacher did kick the rock and close the door prior to the suspect making entry, and the propping open of the door did not affect what happened in this situation, circumventing access control procedures can create a situation that results in danger to students. After the teacher closed the door, she did not check to see if the door was locked. Perhaps this was because the door is usually locked. However, on this day the door was not locked, and because it was not locked, the attacker was able to immediately access the building.
One of the first responding officers (UCISD PD) drove through the parking lot on the west side of the building at a high rate of speed. The suspect was in the parking lot at this time, but the officer did not see him. If the officer had driven more slowly or had parked his car at the edge of the school property and approached on foot, he might have seen the suspect and been able to engage him before the suspect entered the building.
A Uvalde PD officer reported that he was at the crash site and observed the suspect carrying a rifle prior to the suspect entering the west hall exterior door. The UPD officer was armed with a rifle and sighted in to shoot the attacker; however, he asked his supervisor for permission to shoot. The UPD officer did not hear a response and turned to get confirmation from his supervisor. When he turned back to address the suspect, the suspect had already entered the west hall exterior door at 11:33:00.
The way the Incident Command System works is that local authorities need to first ask for State and Federal assistance. So local authorities were and are continuing to show total incompetence.
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According to the timeline, the first shots were fired at 11:29:02 at the pickup truck crash site. Police were on scene at 11:31:43. Suspect didn't enter the building until 11:33:00 and it was 11:33:32 when he entered the first classroom and began murdering the kids.
So basically you had rifle armed police on site who didn't shoot when they had the chance and didn't follow the suspect inside until 11:35:55 from the report:
These officers were equipped with the following: one with external armor and two with concealable body armor, two rifles, and three pistols.
At 11:41:30, dispatch asked via radio if the door was locked, a UPD officer responds, “I am not sure, but we have a hooligan to break it.”
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...A reasonable officer would conclude in this case, based upon the totality of the circumstances, that use of deadly force was warranted. Furthermore, the UPD officer was approximately 148 yards from the west hall exterior door. One-hundred and forty-eight yards
LAW ENFORCEMENT RESPONSE ASSESSMENT 14 is well within the effective range of an AR-15 platform. The officer did comment that he was concerned that if he missed his shot, the rounds could have penetrated the school and injured students. We also note that current State of Texas standards for patrol rifle qualifications do not require officers to fire their rifles from more than 100 yards away from the target. It is, therefore, possible that the officer had never fired his rifle at a target that was that far away.
If any of these three key issues had worked out differently, they could have stopped the tragedy that followed. First, had the exterior door been secured, the suspect may have never gained access to the building. At the very least, the suspect would have been delayed and responding officers would have had more time to find and stop the shooter before he entered the building. The UCISD PD officer might have seen the suspect had the officer not been driving as fast or if he had approached on foot. Lastly, had the UPD officer engaged the suspect with his rifle, he may have been able to neutralize, or at least distract, the suspect preventing him from entering the building.
Bad training seems to certainly be a factor here.
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First, Uvalde ISD had protocols in place requiring doors to remain locked at all times, and the school was currently on an active lockdown prior to the suspect gaining entry to the school. The suspect was still able to gain access to room 111. We received information from the investigating officer that the lock on room 111 had been reported as damaged multiple times; however, this has not been confirmed through work orders at this time. ...we believe that the lock to room 111 was never engaged.
As the officers approached the doors, the suspect began firing. This gunfire caused both teams of officers to retreat from the doors. We note that the officers did not make contact with the doors (i.e., they never touched any part of the doors). The team approaching from the north fell back to the T-intersection of the west and south hallways. This position is approximately 67 feet from the doors of rooms 111 and 112....the first priority is to preserve the lives of victims/potential victims. Second, is the safety of the officers, and last is the suspect. This ordering means that we expect officers to assume risk to save innocent lives. Responding to an active shooter is a dangerous task (Blair & Duron, 2022). There is a chance that officers will be shot, injured, or even killed while responding.
...Ideally, the officers would have placed accurate return fire on the attacker when the attacker began shooting at them.
Officers could have utilized the window to send accurate return fire back at the suspect. Even though the room was darker than the hallway, the suspect would have been backlit by the exterior windows and muzzle flashes would have been present. Obviously, this return fire must be consistent with the fundamental firearms safety rules (e.g., the officers must ensure that students will not be hit by the officers’ return fire).
A. Perhaps the simplest plan would have been to push the team back down the hallway and attempt to control the classrooms from the windows in the doors.
B. If the officers believed that they could not establish control through the doors, they should have found another way to stop the killing and dying. One option would have been to breach the exterior windows of the classrooms. Ideally, this would have involved breaking more than one window simultaneously and then raking the blinds out of the window. It is likely that the suspect would have fired at the officers, but the exterior construction of the building would have provided them with good cover. After the windows were broken (i.e., ported), the officers could have planned to simultaneously stand up in the windows to confront the attacker (i.e., cover). The room would have been substantially darker than the bright exterior conditions at the time. However, breaking the windows and raking the blinds would have increased lighting in the room. Hand-held or weapon-mounted lights could also have been used to increase visibility
Both options a and b could have been done simultaneously.
ALERRT staff performed a “pry” on the door using a Stanley Fat Maxx and a sledgehammer. The breaching technique was recorded and performed relatively quickly (the door was opened in 3-4 seconds)
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ALERRT did not respond to a request for comment, nor did the Uvalde Police Department (UPD)
I would expect the officer or Uvalde Police Department to make this statement, not the mayor?
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One of the problems that this shows may only be apparent to police officers or people who have been keeping up with officer attitudes. The Uvalde officer reportedly had the shooter in his sights and asked for permission to shoot. This reflects one of the most common problems in law enforcement today - officers are afraid to do their job because they know they will be punished for anything that can be dreamed up as a mistake and castigated in the media. I do not know how bad the Uvalde PD and Uvalde CISD PD were at making sure the officers knew they could do their job but this part of the report makes me think the departments had gotten very political on things.
If you want another example of how this goes down, consider what will happen with the Border Patrol Mounted Unit the next time they encounter a large group of illegal aliens coming into the country and are told to stop it. I would bet they are much less likely to be on the scene in time to do anything.
srothstein wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:51 am
One of the problems that this shows may only be apparent to police officers or people who have been keeping up with officer attitudes. The Uvalde officer reportedly had the shooter in his sights and asked for permission to shoot. This reflects one of the most common problems in law enforcement today - officers are afraid to do their job because they know they will be punished for anything that can be dreamed up as a mistake and castigated in the media. I do not know how bad the Uvalde PD and Uvalde CISD PD were at making sure the officers knew they could do their job but this part of the report makes me think the departments had gotten very political on things.
If you want another example of how this goes down, consider what will happen with the Border Patrol Mounted Unit the next time they encounter a large group of illegal aliens coming into the country and are told to stop it. I would bet they are much less likely to be on the scene in time to do anything.
