This one is a doozy of a question

[Tex1961]

This is my understanding based on past threads on this forum and other related websites.

Other instructors who have attended this years Instructor recertifications at the DPS academy have asked the DPS this very same question. The response from my understanding is pretty much a shoulder shrug and that they cannot answer that question. Why... Because the new laws were poorly written and did not take this situation into account. However, some attorneys who are well versed on Texas carry laws have weighted in on this topic and it was their opinion that once you have been issued your LTC, anytime you carry it is under that authority no matter if you have your license on you or not... Now remember this is just an opinion albeit an educated one... The final synopsis is that it will take a test case to make any actual determination.

Since so many of us go concealed and with the penalties removed for compliance on leaving if asked it may never get to that stage. However I for one don't plan on being said "test case". Out of the many times that I have run into a 30.06 sign I can only remember 1 time that I went back to my car and put my gun away so that I could enter... Every other time I simply walked away and gave my business to another store...

[K.Mooneyham]

I know this topic has been hashed over several times in other posts on this forum. However, obviously the law has some serious issues if there are constant discussions about it (at least among those educated on the subject).

The fact is that laws grant NOTHING. All law is about restriction of behavior and abrogation of natural rights (such as self-defense). Therefore, if there is going to be a law about something, it ought to be straightforward and plain in its meaning, easily understood by any "reasonable person" who reads it, with no guesswork. (There's no need to laugh, I fully understand that almost no law is written that way.) What I'm getting at, though, is that "bad laws" (for want of a better term) require far too much interpretation. "Good laws" (being the opposite of bad laws) require little interpretation by the majority of people. That so many folks on here, some of whom are among the most knowledgeable laymen on the subject, have significant questions or varying interpretations on the subject, tells me that the newly passed "Constitutional Carry" is a "bad law". It is less restricting than previous laws, which is good in and of itself. However, I still say it could use a LOT of work to make it more readily understood to those who do not possess legal degrees and could be the ones facing a court of law over some good faith misinterpretation of what's on the books.

EDITED TO ADD: In light of the posting from Tex1961, the opinions of "legal experts" showcase the "bad law" side of Constitutional Carry in Texas. Those who have been background checked and gone through the process of getting an LTC should have LESS restriction, not more, simply because that person's bonafides have already been proven via that background check, and through the years worth of statistics showing that LTC holders are the least likely to commit crimes.

[crazy2medic]

So the 30.05 signs do not have meet the same size and lettering standards as the .06 and .07 ???

[Tex1961]

So the 30.05 signs do not have meet the same size and lettering standards as the .06 and .07 ???

No, they must meet the same requirements at .06/07 signs to be legal.

includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm";
(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;
(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public

[crazy2medic]

Ok, so a typing paper size sign won't cut it!

[Tex1961]

Ok, so a typing paper size sign won't cut it!

Legally no, but I guarantee you that 99% of those carrying without a LTC wouldn’t know the difference.

[K.Mooneyham]

So the 30.05 signs do not have meet the same size and lettering standards as the .06 and .07 ???

No, they must meet the same requirements at .06/07 signs to be legal.

includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm";
(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;
(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public

Another thing to be "cleaned up"...define "substantially similar".

[NotRPB]

So the 30.05 signs do not have meet the same size and lettering standards as the .06 and .07 ???

No, they must meet the same requirements at .06/07 signs to be legal.

includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm";
(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;
(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public

i wish quality guns "manufactured before 1899" were easier to find and cheaper

[Soccerdad1995]

So the 30.05 signs do not have meet the same size and lettering standards as the .06 and .07 ???

No, they must meet the same requirements at .06/07 signs to be legal.

includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm";
(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;
(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public

Another thing to be "cleaned up"...define "substantially similar".

I also don't like the "includes language" which implies that you could have effective notice as long as those words are somewhere on the sign. This invites the possibility of combining a 30.05 and 30.06 and/or 30.07 sign.

There is also the issue of some business owners mistakenly believing that "clear" is a color which contrasts with any actual color.

[NotRPB]

So the 30.05 signs do not have meet the same size and lettering standards as the .06 and .07 ???

No, they must meet the same requirements at .06/07 signs to be legal.

includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm";
(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;
(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public

Another thing to be "cleaned up"...define "substantially similar".

I also don't like the "includes language" which implies that you could have effective notice as long as those words are somewhere on the sign. This invites the possibility of combining a 30.05 and 30.06 and/or 30.07 sign.

There is also the issue of some business owners mistakenly believing that "clear" is a color which contrasts with any actual color.

and 46.03 sign oddly described in 46.15 instead of 46.03

see 46.15(o)(1)
46.15
(o) A person may provide notice that firearms and other weapons are prohibited under Section 46.03 on the premises or other property, as applicable, by posting a sign at each entrance to the premises or other property that:

(1) includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following: "Pursuant to Section 46.03, Penal Code (places weapons prohibited), a person may not carry a firearm or other weapon on this property";

(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;

(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

[NotRPB]

So the 30.05 signs do not have meet the same size and lettering standards as the .06 and .07 ???

also see the post above about 46.03 signs "substantially similar" might mean in braille?
I can't read braile, even 1" tall

[carlson1]

We try to avoid posting things that speaks of any “self defense Insursnce” and I will forego that here too. I am a going to post this on the other thread about questions.

I just watched (two days) ago a YouTube video by one of those companies that I think was very good. It is an older video and entitled “Understand Texas Constitutional Carry…”. Great explanation or at least it was to me of so many questions. It is quiet a long video, but it was well worth my time.