Sig P320 un-commanded discharges

[K.Mooneyham]

Wait……isn’t the M17 basically just a P320 in kaki underwear? If the gun is so dang dangerous, how did it pass military acceptance trials?

How did Universal Camouflage Pattern (UCP) ever pass military acceptance trials?

Why don't military rifles have free-floated barrels?

Big Army does stupid things in Big Ways.

The dirty little secret that anyone who has served knows is that the military is actually one of the worst offenders when it comes to wasting American tax dollars.

No worries, its us paying for all that government waste.

I agree that as a general institution, our military is as wasteful as it gets—except for maybe the Marine Corps, which gets everyone else's cast-offs and has done more with less throughout its entire history. But to the point with the Sig M17, these pistols have been issued now for a while, and in some quantity. How many of them "just went off" all by their onesies? I’m guessing none, or it would already be being dissected in Congress, with dems blaming it all on "drumpf" because he’s STILL living rent free in their heads.

Commanders have an easy fix... just require soldiers to keep them unloaded

I've talked about that subject before. I am completely of the opinion that any given commander would rather take a chance of a random attack on their installation than the chance of negligent discharges. The latter being more likely than the former, and promotions often being hinged upon who has the least amount of issues while in command, negligent discharges could prevent some officer from getting that next shiny thing on their collar, or even from getting a star one day. Which is why I am VERY curious about this whole thing with the Sig P320 when, as TAM pointed out, so many M7s have been in service for so long, without much (if any) in the way of incidents with those carrying them.

[Beiruty]

Do those P320 issued to service members and LEO have a manual safety?

[Scott B.]

Do those P320 issued to service members and LEO have a manual safety?

Yes, and the M17/M18 never had the issue the commercial 320 side corrected in 2017.

[patterson]

The M17 has a safety and I believe the P320 does not

[Paladin]

Do those P320 issued to service members and LEO have a manual safety?

Yes, and the M17/M18 never had the issue the commercial 320 side corrected in 2017.

As the gun community started to circulate word of the problem, Sig Sauer announced a “voluntary upgrade” program in August 2017, allowing P320 owners to ship their guns to the company for a free fix to guard against the “rare occurrence” of accidental discharge in a drop. But its website insists that the unrepaired gun “meets and exceeds all US safety standards,” and the company has not issued a recall. ... But more than 500,000 pistols were sold before Sig Sauer acknowledged the problem publicly, according to company statements to several gun trade publications...Three sellers displayed unrepaired guns, yet claimed they had been upgraded. ...“Safety without compromise,” Sig Sauer promotional materials boast. “We’ve designed safety elements into every necessary feature on this pistol. From the trigger, to the striker and even the magazine, the P320 won’t fire unless you want it to.”...During testing on April 20, 2016, the military says it discovered that the Sig Sauer pistol would fire on its own when dropped. The examination used a test version of ammunition, similar to a blank. A recent Department of Defense report describes what happened. “During drop testing in which an empty primed cartridge was inserted, the striker struck the primer causing a discharge,”

law enforcement officers are suing over a pistol that can fire when you drop it. {JUN 2018}

Basically SIG lied about not having a problem... To say there is no longer a problem, when they lied about there being a problem in the first place and hundreds of thousands of unrepaired guns are still floating around is something I simply don't trust.

SIG's website still refers to the fix as the P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program

[patterson]

Do those P320 issued to service members and LEO have a manual safety?

Yes, and the M17/M18 never had the issue the commercial 320 side corrected in 2017.

As the gun community started to circulate word of the problem, Sig Sauer announced a “voluntary upgrade” program in August 2017, allowing P320 owners to ship their guns to the company for a free fix to guard against the “rare occurrence” of accidental discharge in a drop. But its website insists that the unrepaired gun “meets and exceeds all US safety standards,” and the company has not issued a recall. ... But more than 500,000 pistols were sold before Sig Sauer acknowledged the problem publicly, according to company statements to several gun trade publications...Three sellers displayed unrepaired guns, yet claimed they had been upgraded. ...“Safety without compromise,” Sig Sauer promotional materials boast. “We’ve designed safety elements into every necessary feature on this pistol. From the trigger, to the striker and even the magazine, the P320 won’t fire unless you want it to.”...During testing on April 20, 2016, the military says it discovered that the Sig Sauer pistol would fire on its own when dropped. The examination used a test version of ammunition, similar to a blank. A recent Department of Defense report describes what happened. “During drop testing in which an empty primed cartridge was inserted, the striker struck the primer causing a discharge,”

law enforcement officers are suing over a pistol that can fire when you drop it. {JUN 2018}

Basically SIG lied about not having a problem... To say there is no longer a problem, when they lied about there being a problem in the first place and hundreds of thousands of unrepaired guns are still floating around is something I simply don't trust.

SIG's website still refers to the fix as the P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program

But in that test was the safety engaged?

[flechero]

Basically SIG lied about not having a problem... To say there is no longer a problem, when they lied about there being a problem in the first place and hundreds of thousands of unrepaired guns are still floating around is something I simply don't trust.

SIG's website still refers to the fix as the P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program

To be accurate, the original 320 that was deemed drop safe, did pass the testing requirements. I think that's why they got to call it a voluntary upgrade. So to say it was a lie and they intentionally deceived people may be a stretch. As for the unrepaired guns, many did not want to send them in for fear of a post "fix" trigger that felt glocky.

I'm not ultra keen on the way it was handled either, but the current suit stinks like rotten eggs and is completely unrelated, regardless of how many times people try to refer back to the drop issue. Her gun wasn't dropped- it was inside a big ol purse full of crap, loosly held in an ill fit holster with a partially exposed trigger. What could possibly go wrong?!?!?

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm not ultra keen on the way it was handled either, but the current suit stinks like rotten eggs and is completely unrelated, regardless of how many times people try to refer back to the drop issue. Her gun wasn't dropped- it was inside a big ol purse full of crap, loosly held in an ill fit holster with a partially exposed trigger. What could possibly go wrong?!?!?

That appears to be the bottom line for me too. And this is the reason I refuse to pocket carry without a holster—even if I believe that "there’s nothing else in that pocket". It’s too easy for something to interfere with the trigger's function, either by pulling on it, or obstructing the internals when you most need it to function.

Years ago, we had a thread on this forum discussing an ND while holstering, in which the subject nicked his own butt or hip while holstering his pistol while sitting in his car seat. I don’t recall if the subject was a forum member, or was known to the member who posted it. In any case, the cause of the ND was a too-soft leather holster in which the edge of the holster's opening got pushed into the trigger guard ahead of the trigger while the subject was shoving the gun back into the holster while seated in his car.

Well, it’s possible for pocket or pants material to bunch up and snag a trigger (or catch on a hammer spur). Or, if you’re a lady cop with more gun than sense, it’s possible—even likely—that a purse-carried pistol in a holster not designed to fit that model, with a partially exposed trigger might fire without the operator's intent……which situation is a negligent one set up by the operator. She may not have intended her gun to fire, but it DID fire, and that is directly traceable to conditions SHE created.

[Paladin]

Another Sig P320 fired on its own in the holster:

[philip964]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation ... 90051.html

Apparent lawsuit is proceeding.

[Excaliber]

This is a well documented and witnessed incident that indicates the 320's issues have not been resolved.

The explanation of a "weak firing pin spring" doesn't make sense - the spring was strong enough to drive the firing pin forward with enough force to fire a round.

It loos to me like there are issues with the firing pin / sear interface and the trigger reset.

[Paladin]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation ... 90051.html

Apparent lawsuit is proceeding.

“There have been over 100 incidents (and likely multiples more) of the Sig Sauer unintentionally discharging when the user believed they did not pull the trigger, many of which have caused severe injury to the users and/or bystanders,” the complaint states.

...On one occasion, a Pennsylvania state trooper was killed when another trooper’s Sig Sauer pistol fired without him touching the trigger during a safety training in 2015, the complaint states.

The lawsuit called the pistol the “most dangerous pistol for its users sold in the United States market."

That's a whole lot of very serious problems for one pistol.

[Scott B.]

when the user believed they did not pull the trigger

[srothstein]

when the user believed they did not pull the trigger

No, Alec Baldwin was not using a Sig 320. He is just not the only one to not believe they did what they did.

[LDB415]

I used to train with a friend who was a champion shooter. He'd have a few people at a session, 3-5 usually. At one session we were finishing a drill when there was one more unexpected bang. A woman managed to fire her pistol holstering it. She was fortunate that it barely grazed her leg, peeling her pant leg open and scraping an ugly red welt down about one foot of her thigh. Sadly, it wasn't the first time she started to holster with her finger still in the trigger. Maybe it was the last. I guess the point is she had an "uncommanded discharge" probably similar to many (most?) (all?) of the ones blamed on the 320.