OK what is a 46.03 sign?

[oljames3]

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[Soccerdad1995]

<SNIP>Let's say you had a LTC and saw a store posted 30.06/7, but not 30.05. You carried concealed inside and were somehow discovered. The proprietor told you to leave and you did. He called the police and they arrived in time to cite you for a $200 class C misdemeanor. How do they know you have a LTC? What if you didn't have it with you? You can't technically carry under its authority without it on your person (see 46.15). OK I guess they could look it up. Well, what if you had an Arizona CCW? It is valid in Texas...

My contention, and I'm thinking of starting a new thread to discuss it in detail, but if a location wants to bar all carry, they need to post three signs 30.05/30.06/30.07. The debate will likely never be settled, because people will carry concealed past insufficient or improper signs and no one will ever know.

If people are actually worried about having to pay a $200 fine in this case, with all the necessary conditions above occurring (which I generously estimate at a combined probability of less than 1%), then they should also be worried about paying a $200+ fine in many other cases. One example being speeding. Can you be assured that a LEO might not possibly mistake your vehicle for another one they had actually radared, or that their gun might be slightly off, or that your speedometer might be slightly off. Better always drive 10 mph under the posted limit just to be safe. But then you're at risk of a ticket for impeding traffic. Also, what if you see a sign that says "slow down, we love our kids"? Could a jury read into that to say that you need to drive way below the speed limit around that sign. That's no more of a stretch than a jury saying that a picture of a gun inside a "circle/slash" suddenly means that not only guns but also people who have guns on them are prohibited from entering. I guess the cop would also have to cite himself and his partner when he showed up since there's no logical reason why the jury's creative interpretation of that sign would suddenly get logical and make an exception for on-duty police officers.

I'll take my chances on this and will carry where I am legally able to carry. Heck for a $200 potential fine, I might even act as my own attorney at the trial and question the shop owner on whether they are generally aware of laws that impact their business, or if they are in the normal practice of just "winging it" on legal requirements like they are claiming they did with their intent to prohibit all carry. Come to think of it, that might set the stage for a civil lawsuit against the business owner . After all, their lack of a reasonable effort to learn the law was directly responsible for me being dragged to criminal court in the first place.

[chasfm11]

I'll take my chances on this and will carry where I am legally able to carry. Heck for a $200 potential fine, I might even act as my own attorney at the trial and question the shop owner on whether they are generally aware of laws that impact their business, or if they are in the normal practice of just "winging it" on legal requirements like they are claiming they did with their intent to prohibit all carry. Come to think of it, that might set the stage for a civil lawsuit against the business owner . After all, their lack of a reasonable effort to learn the law was directly responsible for me being dragged to criminal court in the first place.

I'll see your bid and raise you.

1. I think that part of the reason that Constitutional Carry passed this past session was that the Liberals saw that they would have to spend way more political capital to fight it than it was worth, given the other priorities. It seems clear that they want to make sure that they can cheat at elections and want o focus there.
2. One of the reasons that we had such a hard time with Open Carry and Campus Carry was that there were Liberals running around, stirring up the public. There were Libs passing out signs when OC passed and while a lot of business owners put them up, many of taken them down. Even some of the 30.07 signs have disappeared from restaurants. I have no illusions about my showing up OC in one of those and being asked to cover up or leave but I've gotten really sloppy about concealment and as long as most of the holster is cover, I don't worry. No one has ever said a thing in one of those places. Absent the same kind of public lobbying with Con. Carry, most businesses and and ever larger segment of the public doesn't know that it passed and isn't aware of the pending implementation on September 1st. I predict that it will be like MPA. I don't see the Lamestream media diverting much of their attention to it and as long as that remains the case, It will remain unnoticed. There may be a fraction of an uptick in those carrying concealed but would wager that it is more like a relief to those that were already carrying without a license. I'm not saying that it will be incident free.
3.Within that context, the chances of something besides an extremely rare incident triggering action against an LTC are on par with getting hit by lighting twice. Stupid games still can win stupid prizes but the fact that we have such a outstanding history with the LTC community in Texas suggests that even bypassing a 30.06 sign because there is no 30.05 sign is not going to be a problem, concealed being concealed. My guess is that most retailers, even the woke ones are having trying keeping the lights on and are not going to pick fights unless there are extraordinary circumstances. Businesses haven't gotten more sophisticated regarding guns through the course of the pandemic.
4. Events over the past weekend which gained some publicity demonstrate that at least some of the big city police departments are out of control. All bets are off for what happens within those city limits. I was never a fan of Dallas to begin with and now will avoid stepping foot over its boundary unless there is absolutely no other choice and the circumstances are dire.

[ScottDLS]

I'll take my chances on this and will carry where I am legally able to carry. Heck for a $200 potential fine, I might even act as my own attorney at the trial and question the shop owner on whether they are generally aware of laws that impact their business, or if they are in the normal practice of just "winging it" on legal requirements like they are claiming they did with their intent to prohibit all carry. Come to think of it, that might set the stage for a civil lawsuit against the business owner . After all, their lack of a reasonable effort to learn the law was directly responsible for me being dragged to criminal court in the first place.

I'll see your bid and raise you.

1. I think that part of the reason that Constitutional Carry passed this past session was that the Liberals saw that they would have to spend way more political capital to fight it than it was worth, given the other priorities. It seems clear that they want to make sure that they can cheat at elections and want o focus there.
2. One of the reasons that we had such a hard time with Open Carry and Campus Carry was that there were Liberals running around, stirring up the public. There were Libs passing out signs when OC passed and while a lot of business owners put them up, many of taken them down. Even some of the 30.07 signs have disappeared from restaurants. I have no illusions about my showing up OC in one of those and being asked to cover up or leave but I've gotten really sloppy about concealment and as long as most of the holster is cover, I don't worry. No one has ever said a thing in one of those places. Absent the same kind of public lobbying with Con. Carry, most businesses and and ever larger segment of the public doesn't know that it passed and isn't aware of the pending implementation on September 1st. I predict that it will be like MPA. I don't see the Lamestream media diverting much of their attention to it and as long as that remains the case, It will remain unnoticed. There may be a fraction of an uptick in those carrying concealed but would wager that it is more like a relief to those that were already carrying without a license. I'm not saying that it will be incident free.
3.Within that context, the chances of something besides an extremely rare incident triggering action against an LTC are on par with getting hit by lighting twice. Stupid games still can win stupid prizes but the fact that we have such a outstanding history with the LTC community in Texas suggests that even bypassing a 30.06 sign because there is no 30.05 sign is not going to be a problem, concealed being concealed. My guess is that most retailers, even the woke ones are having trying keeping the lights on and are not going to pick fights unless there are extraordinary circumstances. Businesses haven't gotten more sophisticated regarding guns through the course of the pandemic.
4. Events over the past weekend which gained some publicity demonstrate that at least some of the big city police departments are out of control. All bets are off for what happens within those city limits. I was never a fan of Dallas to begin with and now will avoid stepping foot over its boundary unless there is absolutely no other choice and the circumstances are dire.

With both of you.

[oljames3]

HEB in Elgin, Texas, has posted TPC 30.05 signs on both sets of front doors. TPC 30.07 sign in English is on one set of doors and TPC 30.07 sing in Spanish is on the other. TPC 30.05 sign is black letters on clear glass. TPC 30.07 sign is white letters on clear glass.

[K.Mooneyham]

HEB in Elgin, Texas, has posted TPC 30.05 signs on both sets of front doors. TPC 30.07 sign in English is on one set of doors and TPC 30.07 sing in Spanish is on the other. TPC 30.05 sign is black letters on clear glass. TPC 30.07 sign is white letters on clear glass.

So, I take that to mean that HEB is okay with licensed concealed carry, then?

[Mike S]

HEB in Elgin, Texas, has posted TPC 30.05 signs on both sets of front doors. TPC 30.07 sign in English is on one set of doors and TPC 30.07 sing in Spanish is on the other. TPC 30.05 sign is black letters on clear glass. TPC 30.07 sign is white letters on clear glass.

So, I take that to mean that HEB is okay with licensed concealed carry, then?

Yes, concealed carry with an LTC at HEB is the current policy, & appears to remain unchanged.

[oljames3]

HEB in Elgin, Texas, has posted TPC 30.05 signs on both sets of front doors. TPC 30.07 sign in English is on one set of doors and TPC 30.07 sing in Spanish is on the other. TPC 30.05 sign is black letters on clear glass. TPC 30.07 sign is white letters on clear glass.

So, I take that to mean that HEB is okay with licensed concealed carry, then?

Yes, concealed carry with an LTC at HEB is the current policy, & appears to remain unchanged.

Correct. No change in company policy, just a shuffling of signage. Only interesting because it is the first TPC 30.05 sign I have seen.

[K.Mooneyham]

HEB in Elgin, Texas, has posted TPC 30.05 signs on both sets of front doors. TPC 30.07 sign in English is on one set of doors and TPC 30.07 sing in Spanish is on the other. TPC 30.05 sign is black letters on clear glass. TPC 30.07 sign is white letters on clear glass.

So, I take that to mean that HEB is okay with licensed concealed carry, then?

Yes, concealed carry with an LTC at HEB is the current policy, & appears to remain unchanged.

Thank you for the reply.

[austin-tatious]

I was at the Lincoln dealer in Marble Falls yesterday and was surprised to see a 46.03 sign. Previously the dealership had no
30.06, 30.07, or 30.05. Naturally I walked past the 46.03 sign with my concealed handgun. A car dealership obviously is not a prohibited location. Posting it at the dealership does not stop anyone from legally carrying open or concealed. So, what's their reason?

[Tex1961]

I was at the Lincoln dealer in Marble Falls yesterday and was surprised to see a 46.03 sign. Previously the dealership had no
30.06, 30.07, or 30.05. Naturally I walked past the 46.03 sign with my concealed handgun. A car dealership obviously is not a prohibited location. Posting it at the dealership does not stop anyone from legally carrying open or concealed. So, what's their reason?

Ignorance probably. They probably wanted a 30.05 but don’t know the difference.

[jmorris]

I was at the Lincoln dealer in Marble Falls yesterday and was surprised to see a 46.03 sign. Previously the dealership had no
30.06, 30.07, or 30.05. Naturally I walked past the 46.03 sign with my concealed handgun. A car dealership obviously is not a prohibited location. Posting it at the dealership does not stop anyone from legally carrying open or concealed. So, what's their reason?

Ignorance probably. They probably wanted a 30.05 but don’t know the difference.

Exactly. For the longest time a Jarad Jewelry in San Antonio had a 51% sign.

[Rafe]

Exactly. For the longest time a Jarad Jewelry in San Antonio had a 51% sign.

Jewelry shopping while intoxicated. Never a good idea...