Allen West resigns as chair of Texas Republican Party

[Don T]

Allen west violated military code/laws and an Iraqi in a war zone to protect his men. Abbott violated everyone's rights during his Covid reign as King of Texas.

I don't have an informed opinion about Allen West as a gubernatorial candidate. However, when asked for his reasons for running for governor in a radio interview I heard (I think this morning or yesterday), his reasons were all focused on matters of national policy, not state policy. His platform seems to be focused on issues which he could best address in Congress or in the Senate. It seems he may be running for a Texas statewide office when he should be running for a position in Washington, DC.

On the other hand, I consider Gov. Abbott to be one of the the best governors (if not the best) I've had since moving to Texas nearly 50 years ago. I am not a single issue voter; there are three issues which I consider most important when evaluating candidates: freedom of religion, the right to life, and the 2nd Amendment. I live in Dallas County (where Clay Jenkins serves as county judge), and Gov. Abbott certainly protected us from Clay Jenkins' despotic rule during COVID. Gov. Abbott's executive orders overruled Judge Jenkins' orders which unconstitutionally restricted churches, gun stores, and gun ranges (among others). So I am very grateful for Gov. Abbott. I don't know of anyone who has a better record on religious liberty or the 2nd Amendment than Abbott.

I realize that Gov. Abbott is subject to criticism for some of the decisions made during COVID. But I would not vote against Abbott on that account because of his strength on other issues (and DeSantis won't be in the primary here in Texas). At this point, I don't know of anyone who would be a better candidate than Abbott

[K.Mooneyham]

For the record, I have NOT stated I will vote for Allen West, nor do I dislike Governor Abbott, as I think he's done a reasonable job in trying times.

That said, I did a few deployments to an outlying country over in the desert with the USAF over the years. I was a lucky guy in that respect, and despite the heat, getting an ear infection from a sandstorm, food poisoning that required antibiotics, and spending long periods of time in some nasty heat fixing aircraft, at least no one was ever trying to kill me or my airmen. Mr. Cotton will perhaps have some terrible thoughts about me, but I do NOT consider what happens in a war zone where some large number of folks are insanely violent terrorists with a plethora of heavy weaponry at their disposal to be the same as criminals here in the USA, even extremely violent criminals. I'm not making light of any of what happened in the least, nor do I think that gang-bangers or other violent criminals are anything trivial. However, I've seen survivors who were severely injured by IED blasts, and that leaves a SERIOUS impression on a person. I can only imagine being the commander of troops who were killed and maimed by terrorist bombs, bombs that were also indiscriminately set so that if local Iraqi civilians were killed or maimed, well, that meant nothing to the terrorists as long as they caused American causalities. I may learn things about Allen West's time in politics here in the USA that would cause me to view him in a very dim light, but I put what happened in Iraq into a box because the things that happened in that place were not things that happen in a civilized country.

[RoyGBiv]

Allen west violated military code/laws and an Iraqi in a war zone to protect his men. Abbott violated everyone's rights during his Covid reign as King of Texas.

I don't have an informed opinion about Allen West as a gubernatorial candidate. However, when asked for his reasons for running for governor in a radio interview I heard (I think this morning or yesterday), his reasons were all focused on matters of national policy, not state policy. His platform seems to be focused on issues which he could best address in Congress or in the Senate. It seems he may be running for a Texas statewide office when he should be running for a position in Washington, DC.

On the other hand, I consider Gov. Abbott to be one of the the best governors (if not the best) I've had since moving to Texas nearly 50 years ago. I am not a single issue voter; there are three issues which I consider most important when evaluating candidates: freedom of religion, the right to life, and the 2nd Amendment. I live in Dallas County (where Clay Jenkins serves as county judge), and Gov. Abbott certainly protected us from Clay Jenkins' despotic rule during COVID. Gov. Abbott's executive orders overruled Judge Jenkins' orders which unconstitutionally restricted churches, gun stores, and gun ranges (among others). So I am very grateful for Gov. Abbott. I don't know of anyone who has a better record on religious liberty or the 2nd Amendment than Abbott.

I realize that Gov. Abbott is subject to criticism for some of the decisions made during COVID. But I would not vote against Abbott on that account because of his strength on other issues (and DeSantis won't be in the primary here in Texas). At this point, I don't know of anyone who would be a better candidate than Abbott

This is a good description of where I'm at on this choice.... We'll learn more about West during the campaign. I look forward to that. Abbott isn't perfect, but, I think he's done a very solid job over the past term and a half. My only major heartburn about the state legislature is House Speaker, over the past few sessions.

For the record, I have NOT stated I will vote for Allen West, nor do I dislike Governor Abbott, as I think he's done a reasonable job in trying times.

That said, I did a few deployments to an outlying country over in the desert with the USAF over the years. I was a lucky guy in that respect, and despite the heat, getting an ear infection from a sandstorm, food poisoning that required antibiotics, and spending long periods of time in some nasty heat fixing aircraft, at least no one was ever trying to kill me or my airmen. Mr. Cotton will perhaps have some terrible thoughts about me, but I do NOT consider what happens in a war zone where some large number of folks are insanely violent terrorists with a plethora of heavy weaponry at their disposal to be the same as criminals here in the USA, even extremely violent criminals. I'm not making light of any of what happened in the least, nor do I think that gang-bangers or other violent criminals are anything trivial. However, I've seen survivors who were severely injured by IED blasts, and that leaves a SERIOUS impression on a person. I can only imagine being the commander of troops who were killed and maimed by terrorist bombs, bombs that were also indiscriminately set so that if local Iraqi civilians were killed or maimed, well, that meant nothing to the terrorists as long as they caused American causalities. I may learn things about Allen West's time in politics here in the USA that would cause me to view him in a very dim light, but I put what happened in Iraq into a box because the things that happened in that place were not things that happen in a civilized country.

Thank you for this post.

[Hoodasnacks]

That's just one article, so look for more if you want to confirm the facts. Note that the article is quoting heavily from testimony given by West and his men during the Article 15 hearing. It's not just NYT propaganda.

West violated the UCMJ pure and simple. The amount of intelligence, or lack thereof, wouldn't change that fact. You try to give him an out by referencing "imminent danger" but there was no such evidence admitted during the hearing. An accidental or unintentional violation of constitutional rights by a COP is not close to what happened with West. He allowed/ordered his men to take action that violated the UCMJ then he did so himself. A better comparison would be a police officer beating a suspect, then demanding information and confession by sticking his head in a barrel and firing a pistol next to his ear.

Chas.

Ugh...I wrote out a detailed response to this and hit submit and the page didn't load and I lost it. I'm not writing it again. The gist was this:

I read about 10 articles from the time. Most were hit pieces trying to take down a candidate--including the NYT article. I've been around this since I was 5 years old (my dad was a state senator in Utah that was constantly attacked in the press because planned parenthood hated him). It's easy to recognize. There was a semi-fair article from the Florida Sun Sentinel that made a few things clear to me.

It is not me who is "trying to give an out by referencing imminent danger" the judge did...the judge who had all the facts. Multiple military experts opined that the judge went with a fine and no court martial because of the difficult circumstances.

It is easy to take sound bytes from a person (especially an honest one that is admitting wrongdoing) and make them look bad. I do this with deposition testimony all the time. That is what the NYT article is doing.

West's fine was ~2 months of salary. Your cop analogy is severely logically flawed. We ask cops and deployed military officers to do very different things. You would need to find an act that would get a cop suspended for 2 months and then ask if that is a deal breaker 20 years later.

A $5000 is the price tag that the judge put on the severity of West's wrongdoing. That fine is the same that some states charge for a DWI. It is also the same fine that a TX congressman got for skipping the security line on the house floor. I'm going to treat this incident accordingly. That does not make me a dishonorable person. I would caution you on such a polarized stance. It will only turn people off.

[powerboatr]

well dog do do
i wrote a nice item and it seemed to vanish .

i am not supporting or defending mr west. just making a statement.

but playing in the cat litter boxes known as iraq and Afghanistan is a huge litter box full of excrement . many expect the service men and women to uphold geneva accords and other operating procedures set for each area . most try to ensure these "people" are protected by US law. This is wrong and has always been wrong in this region.
these cat box deposits do not respect law, unless its to their advantage . Our forces in the cat box should be strong and just, by playing the game by the exact same means the enemy use. these "people" do not recognize rights and only react to strength. so if a military person plays it close and may step over our bull rules to protect his or her troops. SO be it. i guarantee the cat box occupants dont give one iota about rules and rights of our troops.


i want a governor that holds the federal government to account
just one area that needs this; is the border. the feds allow criminals to come into our country using illegal means. If they come to ports of entry and claim asylum or whatever, thats fine, thats the way it should go. But entering outside these ports of entry is a CRIME and should be pursued as such.
we need a governor that will force the fed to publicly explain/defend why criminal behavior is ok. why catch and release vice catch and deport

our governor should take over the border from federal agencies because those agencies are in violation of the law, so they are accessories to crimes.
our border should be held with physical force and with any means (water cannons, steam cannons, bullets, etc) required to stop crossings at any points that are not ports of entry.
our governor should stop feds from housing the criminal aliens on Texas soil. and those in custody should be flown to dc and dropped off on the door step of the problem, or on the door step of those in congress that seem to think open borders and catch and release is A OK
our governor should force the issue and use every means available to get the word out and make sure congress is in the hot seat each and every day.
social media, ads, news papers, rallies, etc
show actual costs to Texans and the us society. show the small towns that have been drop off points to these criminals. show the horrible cost placed on these towns to absorb the care and feeding of these criminals .

i may seem hard headed, but until a governor takes the federal government to task, it will not end

[srothstein]

I said before that I have nothing against LTC West or against Gov. Abbott. I will probably vote for Abbott to get re-elected but I am not set on that yet. My only decision on this so far is that Mr. Huffines has some detailed explaining to do to get my vote.

I had not read this much on West before this. I knew he was an Army officer and a former congressman. I certainly cannot condemn him for his actions based on the story related by Mr. Cotton. As a former vet and a retired cop, I know that sometimes the actions needed in a specific situation are not always what is legal or proper.

But I also see that Mr. Cotton has a point that some might be missing. LTC West is not necessarily a bad person for what he did, but is it the actions I would want in a governor? Would he show a similar disregard for the law if some situation happened in Texas while he was governor? He would not be the first governor someone tried to assassinate, if it was a very similar situation. Would I expect him to obey the whole law or could he break some of it to get the information on the plot. In law enforcement, there is a whole branch of study on this phenomenon called "Noble Cause Corruption", where cops do wrong in some way against one person because they are trying to the right thing for more people.

I am not saying to not vote for LTC west or to vote for him. I suggest some research and make up your own minds on this.

[SewTexas]

I'm not set for or against West. I'm already seeing some things come out about West that have me concerned about him. Not even the story from 20 years ago, I'm not worried about something that happened "over there" when he was dealing with a terrorist....heck, I'm not sure what I would do if I were faced with someone I knew had info about a bomb or a kidnapped child, I might just say "give me the pliers".
I'm sort of leaning toward Abbot or Huffines, but we'll see as things play out, we've got time.

[Take Down Sicko]

My vote will be with Abbott. I want him to continue building the wall.

[Charles L. Cotton]

That's just one article, so look for more if you want to confirm the facts. Note that the article is quoting heavily from testimony given by West and his men during the Article 15 hearing. It's not just NYT propaganda.

West violated the UCMJ pure and simple. The amount of intelligence, or lack thereof, wouldn't change that fact. You try to give him an out by referencing "imminent danger" but there was no such evidence admitted during the hearing. An accidental or unintentional violation of constitutional rights by a COP is not close to what happened with West. He allowed/ordered his men to take action that violated the UCMJ then he did so himself. A better comparison would be a police officer beating a suspect, then demanding information and confession by sticking his head in a barrel and firing a pistol next to his ear.

Chas.

Ugh...I wrote out a detailed response to this and hit submit and the page didn't load and I lost it. I'm not writing it again. The gist was this:

I read about 10 articles from the time. Most were hit pieces trying to take down a candidate--including the NYT article. I've been around this since I was 5 years old (my dad was a state senator in Utah that was constantly attacked in the press because planned parenthood hated him). It's easy to recognize. There was a semi-fair article from the Florida Sun Sentinel that made a few things clear to me.

It is not me who is "trying to give an out by referencing imminent danger" the judge did...the judge who had all the facts. Multiple military experts opined that the judge went with a fine and no court martial because of the difficult circumstances.

It is easy to take sound bytes from a person (especially an honest one that is admitting wrongdoing) and make them look bad. I do this with deposition testimony all the time. That is what the NYT article is doing.

West's fine was ~2 months of salary. Your cop analogy is severely logically flawed. We ask cops and deployed military officers to do very different things. You would need to find an act that would get a cop suspended for 2 months and then ask if that is a deal breaker 20 years later.

A $5000 is the price tag that the judge put on the severity of West's wrongdoing. That fine is the same that some states charge for a DWI. It is also the same fine that a TX congressman got for skipping the security line on the house floor. I'm going to treat this incident accordingly. That does not make me a dishonorable person. I would caution you on such a polarized stance. It will only turn people off.

West resigned rather than face a court martial. He was allowed to do so and pay a $5000 fine. He was not merely fined $5000 after a full court martial.

The COP analogy was directly on point. The man that was beaten and terrified was never found to have any involvement with terrorists.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I'm not set for or against West. I'm already seeing some things come out about West that have me concerned about him. Not even the story from 20 years ago, I'm not worried about something that happened "over there" when he was dealing with a terrorist....heck, I'm not sure what I would do if I were faced with someone I knew had info about a bomb or a kidnapped child, I might just say "give me the pliers".
I'm sort of leaning toward Abbot or Huffines, but we'll see as things play out, we've got time.

There's a problem with your position. The beaten man was not a terrorist! He was a COP in Iraqi that apparently was falsely accused by others. Herein lies the danger.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

As I said before, watch for more information coming out during the campaign.

Chas.

[BigGuy]

I'm so thankful for forums and threads like this. I won't be posting much because I have so little to add to the conversation. But I will be reading as I learn from knowledgeable people. I'll feel better about my choices at the polls after checking sources such as this. I appreciate when people back their opinions up with actual data. (Quotes, attributed articles, etc.) I don't dig for the source material the way you guys do, and I appreciate the comments and links.