Two riot situations not yet addressed

[crazy2medic]

whipping out a telescoping baton and whacking him across the teeth
When I got my Security Commission, I was taught any strike with a Baton above the shoulders is considered Deadly Force! FYI

[Redneck_Buddha]

When you find yourself surrounded by hostile people and they break a window, i'd make the assumtion that they intend to get at you, drag you out of your vehicle and beat you to death, otherwise they'd let you pass through and go about their business and let you go about yours! When they break a window or open a door they intend to get at you and that's when deadly force will be employed!

Yup. No need to over think it

[Jose_in_Dallas]

Fortunately, because of COVID, I work entirely from home. And when and where I travel in the DFW area has been relatively trouble free i.e. I avoid downtown Dallas. But it does make me want to carry some OC spray in the car. And now I'm thinking about mounting a dash cam to record stuff in the event of an emergency. Anyone else considering the same?

[LucasMcCain]

Fortunately, because of COVID, I work entirely from home. And when and where I travel in the DFW area has been relatively trouble free i.e. I avoid downtown Dallas. But it does make me want to carry some OC spray in the car. And now I'm thinking about mounting a dash cam to record stuff in the event of an emergency. Anyone else considering the same?

Bought a dash cam yesterday. The SD card for it will come in today. I've been meaning to get one for a while, but this recent insanity was enough to get me to pull the trigger, so to speak. Pepper spray would probably also be a good idea.

[crazy2medic]

Fortunately, because of COVID, I work entirely from home. And when and where I travel in the DFW area has been relatively trouble free i.e. I avoid downtown Dallas. But it does make me want to carry some OC spray in the car. And now I'm thinking about mounting a dash cam to record stuff in the event of an emergency. Anyone else considering the same?

Bought a dash cam yesterday. The SD card for it will come in today. I've been meaning to get one for a while, but this recent insanity was enough to get me to pull the trigger, so to speak. Pepper spray would probably also be a good idea.

Just be advised Pepper Spray can be two way, in order to carry it, I had to be sprayed with it! and that stuff will light you up! Even a slight breeze can put it back in your face, the stuff that comes out in a foam stream is less likely to blow back in your face but it can still happen!

[oljames3]

There is hardly any downside to carrying OC (pepper) spray. Civilians do not "have to be sprayed" in order to carry it. When used defensively, it is seen as force, not deadly force. Thus, it is a good tool to have in your self defense tool box.

The biggest drawback is that OC is highly susceptible to wind. You must be mindful of the direction and force of air currents or risk exposing yourself or missing your target. I have my family members practice first with an inert trainer then with live OC. Works for us.

We carry either Sabre Red Mk6 or POM OC (both are sprays) depending on whether we want a larger or smaller form factor, respectively.

Another consideration is the delivery format; spray, gel, or fog. Each has its pros/cons, but the gel can take 30 seconds or more to take effect if you miss the eyes. Here is Chuck Haggard discussing OC and less than lethal tools.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... Pi5b2EDZhr

US/Texas-Law-Shield has recently done some webinars concerning civil unrest. https://www.youtube.com/c/uslawshield/search?query=riot

Before employing any use of force, it is important to understand the law of self defense. This is not part of the LTC class curriculum. Attorney Andrew Branca breaks it down. https://lawofselfdefense.com/beginjourney/

Branca also does a Facebook LIVE News/Q&A on Thursdays at 3pm Central. During the live session, you can type in questions on the topic of the law of self defense in general or the specific events in the video. https://www.facebook.com/LawofSelfDefense/

If you miss it, or just don't like Facebook, a recording will be available a day or so later at https://lawofselfdefense.com/blog/. The News/Q&A sessions are open access.

[PUCKER]

I like this invention...from years ago...down where Andy is from (or used to live)....

[DEB]

I have thought about this for some time. Currently, as I understand it, one cannot employ lethal force on rioters, unless they are hands on with you and they also really are striking you. In other words, currently, riots are treated the same as if you are accosted by only one person, when if fact they are much more dangerous, even with the disparity of force rules. With one person, perhaps I can talk my way out of it, riots not so much. With one person, I can accept verbal abuse and walk away, with riots, it is mob thought. Who remembers the LA riots? That trucker being drug out of his truck. Currently, as I understand it, he couldn't use lethal force, until they started hitting him, same as riots in the cities now. I submit, it is way to late once the rioters decide you are a target to pummel to death, more recently like that guy in Portland, who tried to save another person. If he would have drew a firearm prior to be actually attacked, he would have been arrested or the rioters could have responded with lethal force, as I see it, without fear from L.E. Very convoluted and confusing. Laws need changed, rioters/multiple folks hindering you from your travels, needs to be addressed by the law as deadly force, IMO. Not because I disagree with their 1st Amendment rights, but because protesters, become rioters at a drop of a hat. Waiting to see if a mob, while they are smashing your vehicle, shouting at you, to see if they really intend to mean you personal harm, seems to me to not be right.
Once a mob acts, it is over for you, even if you are even able to draw a weapon, too many to keep away from you. If you are able to respond earlier, then they wash around you and your survival chances increase. This at least what I have observed from previous individual's actions.
I will do all I can to stay away from anyplace protests take place, but even that isn't right. I shouldn't be punished by the law on my freedom of movement either. I know one can parse this closely, stating that if you feel your life is in danger and etc. Reality is, if you respond to political rioters, where they are protected by a certain political party, you will go to jail, you will be held over for trial, you will be destroyed by those current politics. I personally can't afford that. So, is it, "In for a penny, In for a pound"?
My thoughts only. Even speaking openly on a forum such as this could cause one trouble/loss of job, especially if you are on the other side politically, or work for the Government. Both of which I meet. Whew pretty wordy huh.

[oljames3]

The law of self defense is not that complicated. Only up to five elements. Attorney Andrew Branca explains: https://lawofselfdefense.com/beginjourney/

The black letter of the law does not always mean what it seems to mean. How the law is applied is expressed in court decisions, especially appeals, and in jury instructions. If all you know is the statute you read, you do not know the law. However, the statute is a good place to start.

In general, you do not have to wait to be attacked in order to legally respond with force or deadly force. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Brown v US, 9121: "Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife."

Rather, Texas Penal Code 9.31, 9.32, and 9.33 us the term "reasonably believes." Further, this statute uses the terms "unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting", "unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting", and "was committing or attempting to commit." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/SOTW ... m/PE.9.htm

The law does not require that we wait to be attacked. It does require that we act "reasonably." If you have questions, ask your attorney.

If you do not have one or cannot afford one, US-Texas-Law-Shield has many free videos discussing self defense and gun law in general and Texas law in particular. https://www.youtube.com/c/uslawshield/videos
They also publish a book after each Texas legislative session that explains the justice system process and Texas law in plain language. The price is $29.95. Amazon has higher prices. https://book.uslawshield.com/texas/

Attorney Andrew Branca has a free Facebook LIVE video each Thursday at 3pm Central. https://www.facebook.com/LawofSelfDefense/
Branca also posts a blog. Not all of his blog posts are open access, but many are. https://lawofselfdefense.com/blog/
Branca wrote the book, "The Law of Self Defense", with forward by Massad Ayoob. https://lawofselfdefense.com/product/la ... d-edition/

You carry a gun so you’re hard to kill.
Know the law so you’re hard to convict.
- Andrew Branca