GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

[oljames3]

Do not get wrapped up conflating Texas and GA law. Unlike Texas, GA law says "If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion." GA 17-4-60.

Georgia’s citizens arrest statute:
§17-4-60 Grounds for arrest https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... or-arrest/

Georgia’s felony burglary statute
§16-7-1. Burglary https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... -burglary/

Georgia case law qualifying home under construction for felony burglary:
Smith v. State, 226 Ga. App. 9 (GA Ct. App. 1997) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/s ... -app-1997/

Georgia case law qualifying tool shed for felony burglary:
Mezick v. State, 291 Ga. App. 257 (GA Ct. App. 2008) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/m ... -app-2008/

[oljames3]

Authorities: Georgia father and son arrested and charged with murder of black man who was killed on residential street.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/aut ... k-70568678

[03Lightningrocks]

Do not get wrapped up conflating Texas and GA law. Unlike Texas, GA law says "If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion." GA 17-4-60.

Georgia’s citizens arrest statute:
§17-4-60 Grounds for arrest https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... or-arrest/

Georgia’s felony burglary statute
§16-7-1. Burglary https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... -burglary/

Georgia case law qualifying home under construction for felony burglary:
Smith v. State, 226 Ga. App. 9 (GA Ct. App. 1997) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/s ... -app-1997/

Georgia case law qualifying tool shed for felony burglary:
Mezick v. State, 291 Ga. App. 257 (GA Ct. App. 2008) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/m ... -app-2008/

The article I read said one of the rednecks was standing in the yard and saw a black guy jog by. He grabbed redneck number two, a couple firearms and his pickup truck. They then chased the guy down and killed him. Sounds like the "good ole days" in the south to me. And I am one of those guys who feels racism is brought up way more than justified. But this one stinks. Again, the article said they saw him jog by and thought he looked like the guy who stole stuff. They did not see him actually stealing anything at the time.

[oljames3]

Do not get wrapped up conflating Texas and GA law. Unlike Texas, GA law says "If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion." GA 17-4-60.

Georgia’s citizens arrest statute:
§17-4-60 Grounds for arrest https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... or-arrest/

Georgia’s felony burglary statute
§16-7-1. Burglary https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... -burglary/

Georgia case law qualifying home under construction for felony burglary:
Smith v. State, 226 Ga. App. 9 (GA Ct. App. 1997) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/s ... -app-1997/

Georgia case law qualifying tool shed for felony burglary:
Mezick v. State, 291 Ga. App. 257 (GA Ct. App. 2008) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/m ... -app-2008/

The article I read said one of the rednecks was standing in the yard and saw a black guy jog by. He grabbed redneck number two, a couple firearms and his pickup truck. They then chased the guy down and killed him. Sounds like the "good ole days" in the south to me. And I am one of those guys who feels racism is brought up way more than justified. But this one stinks. Again, the article said they saw him jog by and thought he looked like the guy who stole stuff. They did not see him actually stealing anything at the time.

In GA law, they don't have to see the felony.

[03Lightningrocks]

Do not get wrapped up conflating Texas and GA law. Unlike Texas, GA law says "If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion." GA 17-4-60.

Georgia’s citizens arrest statute:
§17-4-60 Grounds for arrest https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... or-arrest/

Georgia’s felony burglary statute
§16-7-1. Burglary https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... -burglary/

Georgia case law qualifying home under construction for felony burglary:
Smith v. State, 226 Ga. App. 9 (GA Ct. App. 1997) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/s ... -app-1997/

Georgia case law qualifying tool shed for felony burglary:
Mezick v. State, 291 Ga. App. 257 (GA Ct. App. 2008) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/m ... -app-2008/

The article I read said one of the rednecks was standing in the yard and saw a black guy jog by. He grabbed redneck number two, a couple firearms and his pickup truck. They then chased the guy down and killed him. Sounds like the "good ole days" in the south to me. And I am one of those guys who feels racism is brought up way more than justified. But this one stinks. Again, the article said they saw him jog by and thought he looked like the guy who stole stuff. They did not see him actually stealing anything at the time.

In GA law, they don't have to see the felony.

That is a pretty screwed up law, It sure sounds like a recipe for trouble allowing a person to kill someone because they think the person looks like a guy who committed a crime in the past. I am betting the two rednecks are headed to prison. But we will see. Something else that did cross my mind. I am wondering why they have not found any evidence of the crime on the dead guy or at his residence. Surely there would be something that shows he is the actual thief. If it is OK to kill a suspected felon in Georgia, that kind of evidence would be helpful to the rednecks.

[jb2012]

Let’s go ahead and acknowledge the gaping difference between a citizen’s arrest and using lethal force to perform a citizen’s arrest. There does not appear to be any defense to prosecution for lethal force during a citizen’s arrest. I’m not making any hasty judgements until all of the details come out, however it appears to be a pretty bad shoot. The facts we have right now

-Man was killed while jogging (to/from who knows) by two men with guns.
-The men claim that they were ”performing a citizen’s arrest” when the altercation occurred due to recent crime in the area, with suspicion that the perpetrator of the respective crimes might be the casualty of the shooting.
-There is a low quality video that appears to show a man jogging in the road towards a truck with one individual in the bed and the other on the ground with a long barreled firearm. During the initial struggle the camera moves in and out of the scene of the incident making it difficult to really tell exactly what is going on.
-It appears that the “victim” is attempting to flee the two men towards the end of an altercation and collapses in front of the truck.

I just don’t think we have even close to enough information yet to know what really happened. Does anyone know why the individual with the camera decided to record at that moment? That person must have been alerted by something to turn on their phone camera at that moment, because that does not appear to be a dash cam, unless it was removed to get a better picture.

[03Lightningrocks]

Let’s go ahead and acknowledge the gaping difference between a citizen’s arrest and using lethal force to perform a citizen’s arrest. There does not appear to be any defense to prosecution for lethal force during a citizen’s arrest. I’m not making any hasty judgements until all of the details come out, however it appears to be a pretty bad shoot. The facts we have right now

-Man was killed while jogging (to/from who knows) by two men with guns.
-The men claim that they were ”performing a citizen’s arrest” when the altercation occurred due to recent crime in the area, with suspicion that the perpetrator of the respective crimes might be the casualty of the shooting.
-There is a low quality video that appears to show a man jogging in the road towards a truck with one individual in the bed and the other on the ground with a long barreled firearm. During the initial struggle the camera moves in and out of the scene of the incident making it difficult to really tell exactly what is going on.
-It appears that the “victim” is attempting to flee the two men towards the end of an altercation and collapses in front of the truck.

I just don’t think we have even close to enough information yet to know what really happened. Does anyone know why the individual with the camera decided to record at that moment? That person must have been alerted by something to turn on their phone camera at that moment, because that does not appear to be a dash cam, unless it was removed to get a better picture.

I got the impression it was one of those vehicle video cams because it starts out moving down the road then comes around a corner where the dude is trying to run around the truck blocking him. It did not seem like the camera was being moved by human hands. It was more like it was catching what ever was in front of the vehicle as it rolled closer to the truck.

[philip964]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/nati ... -horrific/

Father and son have been arrested charged with murder following national news picking up the story.

I’ll let someone explain the son being arrested for murder. He was in the truck bed. I know when you decide to rob a store with guns and your partner shoots some one, you are charged with murder.

So is chasing after some one, who you believe may have committed a crime, now a crime?

Apparently didn’t go to a grand jury. Georgia Bureau of Investigation made the arrest.

Article says as they struggled for the long gun, the jogger was punching the other man. Apparently the other man was holding the trigger end of the long gun, jogger the business end and the gun fired a third time killing the jogger.

[03Lightningrocks]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/nati ... -horrific/

Father and son have been arrested charged with murder following national news picking up the story.

I’ll let someone explain the son being arrested for murder. He was in the truck bed. I know when you decide to rob a store with guns and your partner shoots some one, you are charged with murder.

So is chasing after some one, who you believe may have committed a crime, now a crime?

Apparently didn’t go to a grand jury. Georgia state police made the arrest.

Article says as they struggled for the long gun, the jogger struck the othe man with his fist. Apparently the other man was holding the trigger end of the long gun, jogger the business end and the gun fired a third time killing the jogger.

I am definitely not a legal expert on this but it seems to me it all depends on the circumstances revolving around the situation. One issue is that just thinking someone committed a crime does not mean they did it. Playing Batman does come with some inherent risks. As it should. I might intervene in a situation to stop a felony in progress but it would take a very extreme situation for me to engage in a chase of the criminal. Property theft would not be a render chase situation in my world. Especially if it belonged to someone else.

[FastCarry]

[oljames3]

As I have said before, GA law is different from Texas law.
GA §17-4-60 Grounds for arrest https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... or-arrest/

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

As for both father and son being charged with murder - https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/20 ... e-1/16-5-1

2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON
ARTICLE 1 - HOMICIDE
§ 16-5-1 - Murder; felony murder
O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 (2010)
16-5-1. Murder; felony murder
(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.
(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.
(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
(d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life.

[jayinsat]

The simple fact based on all the information released thus far is, 2 men decided to go after a person THEY SUSPECTED had committed a crime the night before. These two men decided they did not need to involve the police. They wanted to investigate and detain on their own. They chased down and approached an unarmed while one of them displayed a long gun. The video shows clearly enough the young man ran around the men and, when confronted, fought for his life and lost.
The father and sons actions caused the death of a young man who was not given the opportunity to be lawfully accused in a court of law. This is, by definition, vigilantism and a modern lynch mob.

[03Lightningrocks]

The simple fact based on all the information released thus far is, 2 men decided to go after a person THEY SUSPECTED had committed a crime the night before. These two men decided they did not need to involve the police. They wanted to investigate and detain on their own. They chased down and approached an unarmed while one of them displayed a long gun. The video shows clearly enough the young man ran around the men and, when confronted, fought for his life and lost.
The father and sons actions caused the death of a young man who was not given the opportunity to be lawfully accused in a court of law. This is, by definition, vigilantism and a modern lynch mob.

Memories of "the good old days" in the South.

[eyedoc]

Do not get wrapped up conflating Texas and GA law. Unlike Texas, GA law says "If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion." GA 17-4-60.

Georgia’s citizens arrest statute:
§17-4-60 Grounds for arrest https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... or-arrest/

Georgia’s felony burglary statute
§16-7-1. Burglary https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/ga ... -burglary/

Georgia case law qualifying home under construction for felony burglary:
Smith v. State, 226 Ga. App. 9 (GA Ct. App. 1997) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/s ... -app-1997/

Georgia case law qualifying tool shed for felony burglary:
Mezick v. State, 291 Ga. App. 257 (GA Ct. App. 2008) https://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/m ... -app-2008/

The article I read said one of the rednecks was standing in the yard and saw a black guy jog by. He grabbed redneck number two, a couple firearms and his pickup truck. They then chased the guy down and killed him. Sounds like the "good ole days" in the south to me. And I am one of those guys who feels racism is brought up way more than justified. But this one stinks. Again, the article said they saw him jog by and thought he looked like the guy who stole stuff. They did not see him actually stealing anything at the time.

In GA law, they don't have to see the felony.

That is a pretty screwed up law, It sure sounds like a recipe for trouble allowing a person to kill someone because they think the person looks like a guy who committed a crime in the past. I am betting the two rednecks are headed to prison. But we will see. Something else that did cross my mind. I am wondering why they have not found any evidence of the crime on the dead guy or at his residence. Surely there would be something that shows he is the actual thief. If it is OK to kill a suspected felon in Georgia, that kind of evidence would be helpful to the rednecks.

Maybe he got shoot because he attacked one of the guys? Is that possible?

[eyedoc]

oops. Double post.