Back the Blue in danger of losing support

[rtschl]

Let me state clearly that I am adamantly a "Back the Blue" citizen. Our police officers take on a lot of risks to keep our society safe for less money and support than they deserve. With that said, I think the goodwill effort of "Back the Blue" could be in serious danger if officers are not careful in enforcement of executive orders rather than laws and abiding by The Constitution. Seeing citizens arrested for going to playgrounds, telling 90 year olds they cannot sit on their own chairs on a beach, arresting protesters exercising their 1st Ammendment rights all the while letting out convicted and/or charged defendants, etc. is about to make my head explode.

Now you have this incident where police are dispatched to a home harassing a mother for letting her daughter play with neighbor's kids. The linked story has the video of the incident. https://danaloesch.com/this-is-totalita ... e-garbage/

I was in the camp that thought there is no way police would obey unconstitutional orders to come after citizen's guns. I no longer hold that belief. I think many departments and officers won't but also believe that way too many will. We have seen local and state governments asking people to snitch on their neighbors and the police showing up to enforce executive orders. Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.

[PlatinumCouch]

[cirus]

Police are just like all people and subject to corruption. If they need a paycheck they'll enforce whatever they're told to. Some have honor but alot dont. I've never trusted anyone completely that is in a position of authority.

[chasfm11]

Police are just like all people and subject to corruption. If they need a paycheck they'll enforce whatever they're told to. Some have honor but alot dont. I've never trusted anyone completely that is in a position of authority.

And it is worst in places with police leadership is badly compromised by politics. We have often talked on this forum about how it wold be better to be involved in a self-defense shooting in some places in Texas than in others. To a great degree, those conversations centered around politically active DAs. But the police have always been in a similar position. I have always wished that the few who wanted to use their position in LE for oppressive behavior would be better controlled by peer pressure and management oversight. And some cases, like the officer who "vigorously" arrested a nurse for refusing to draw blood, they are. But it isn't as universal as I think Internal Affairs should be. As I believe that police should take care of their own, I think that they should restrain their own, too.

[cirus]

Police are just like all people and subject to corruption. If they need a paycheck they'll enforce whatever they're told to. Some have honor but alot dont. I've never trusted anyone completely that is in a position of authority.

And it is worst in places with police leadership is badly compromised by politics. We have often talked on this forum about how it wold be better to be involved in a self-defense shooting in some places in Texas than in others. To a great degree, those conversations centered around politically active DAs. But the police have always been in a similar position. I have always wished that the few who wanted to use their position in LE for oppressive behavior would be better controlled by peer pressure and management oversight. And some cases, like the officer who "vigorously" arrested a nurse for refusing to draw blood, they are. But it isn't as universal as I think Internal Affairs should be. As I believe that police should take care of their own, I think that they should restrain their own, too.

[rtschl]

Kurt Schlichter who is a retired Army Infantry colonel has now written a piece on this as it is only getting worse.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtsch ... t-n2568260

A few of his thoughts from the article are below. It really is a good read.

As conservatives, we pride ourselves on our unwavering support of the Thin Blue Line, on backing our cops against leftist slander, and yet stupid and evil people in law enforcement are putting that default thumbs-up from normal Americans at risk.

If the LEO community does not police its own ranks and stamp out this nonsense, it might as well take all the goodwill it has earned over the years, douse it in cheap gasoline, and set it on fire.

Can anyone really calculate the damage the FBI and DoJ’s schemes and crimes have done to their reputations? And now local law enforcement is trashing its own rep with stupid antics designed to bully normal citizens.

[Grayling813]

Kurt Schlichter who is a retired Army Infantry colonel has now written a piece on this as it is only getting worse.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtsch ... t-n2568260

A few of his thoughts from the article are below. It really is a good read.

As conservatives, we pride ourselves on our unwavering support of the Thin Blue Line, on backing our cops against leftist slander, and yet stupid and evil people in law enforcement are putting that default thumbs-up from normal Americans at risk.

If the LEO community does not police its own ranks and stamp out this nonsense, it might as well take all the goodwill it has earned over the years, douse it in cheap gasoline, and set it on fire.

Can anyone really calculate the damage the FBI and DoJ’s schemes and crimes have done to their reputations? And now local law enforcement is trashing its own rep with stupid antics designed to bully normal citizens.

Was thinking about this post when reading Schlichter’s piece this morning.
“Just following orders” is a dangerous way to look at things.

[srothstein]

I thought I might give you a slightly different point of view on this issue, that of a retired police officer. As a police officer, I swore to uphold the law. The Texas Code of Criminal Procedure requires a police officer to respond to any crime that occurs in his jurisdiction at any time. This is where the concept that they are on duty 24 hours comes from. But please note that the law and the oath do not give me the choice on which laws to enforce, such as whether I like it or not. The law does give me a lot of discretion, but there are cases where it does not (both orders to arrest and orders forbidding arrest). I will discuss discretion but want to look at something else first.

I refuse, and believe the law and my oath support, to enforce any law that is in violation of the US Constitution. Most cops feel the same way. The question though is what law violates the Constitution if the SCOTUS has not ruled on it. I may or may not agree with you on this. For example, I have a pretty strict interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and stopped enforcing unlawfully carrying laws a long time ago for most cases. But does the Constitution allow for an emergency order to close businesses? It certainly allows for the regulation of commerce. I can point to arguments that say the Constitution does not allow them to shut the business down, but it is really a stretch (the Contracts Clause and the Habeas Corpus Clause).

Many officers do not agree with me on the emergency powers allowed to the government. A large number of officers, like a large number of citizens overall, think the government has a lot of power in an emergency. I cannot talk about the cases of people arrested for playing in parks or for letting the child play at someone else's house because I do not know their state laws or the wording of the exact emergency order. But I do know Texas law fairly well (certainly not perfectly). In the current case of the woman jailed for opening her salon, look closely at what happened. The governor issued an order closing the business. Part of the actual order says it can be enforced. The county judge issued an order that told people to stay home. That order also contained a clause saying it was a class B misdemeanor to violate it. The statute authorizing the order says this is proper and an offense. So we have a crime being committed and an officer is required to respond. The woman did not obey the order and opened her business. Police were sent (which means someone complained) and told her to close. She did not do so. Police were called again and the second time issued her a citation. She ignored it and stayed open. The third time, the police arrested her. Now we have the governor who issued the original order to close the business saying this is a travesty of justice. Just what were the police supposed to do? How do they treat the next governor's order if they know he will not back them for enforcing it?

Now, for a quick look at discretion. In most cases, it is up to the police officer how to handle any complaint. They MAY arrest but are not required to. If it is above a class C misdemeanor, the general rule is they cannot cite, but arrest or not are the only options (there are a couple offenses where they can write a ticket for class B or C misdemeanors). My belief is that I rarely arrest unless the person really deserves (IMO) a trip to jail. I have gotten into trouble over that attitude though, and different officers will find different offenses deserve trips to jail. An example of one offense I do not always arrest for but other officers do is DWI. I believe my job is to keep the streets safe. I may impound the car and put the offender in a taxi. I have had a few where I called the two truck and had the tow truck take the driver home with the car. And I have had a bunch where I arrested the driver. But some people get very upset when they hear that I do not arrest every DWI I find. I have been complained on for it. I have never said an officer did a bad thing by arresting a person for DWI if they were committing the offense.

Along the other side of this, and how some of you were saying, I do not support everything every officer has done either. I cannot see how an officer could justify arresting the nurse in the one case referred to (though I have taken the Devil's advocate position in a few debates to ask what was wrong with it). I cannot see how anyone could justify officers using a bomb to kill a person (in Dallas or Philadelphia). I do not understand how a county Sheriff can justify arresting protestors at a barber shop, though I admit that this one was confused by the protestors actions somewhat.

But when I see actions I cannot justify, I also remember that these are very rare events. The media makes them seem more common than they are. There are about 1,000,000 police officers in the US. Each one is making contacts with the public every day. Even when you see a dozen contacts gone bad in one week and the officers were completely unjustified in their actions, it means that 12 out of 7,000,000 or more contacts were a problem. There are always a few bad cops or a cop having a bad day and making a mistake. Please look at the very small percentage of bad incidents before you start losing your faith in police.

And as I say that, I admit I am troubled by some of the apparent trends I have seen. I think we can work to stop that. First thing is to work with legislators to stop passing laws we don't need and cops should not be enforcing. Before you support any law, ask the legislator if they are ready for someone to die over that law, because it will happen. Then we can work with police administration. We need to get agencies to remember that officer are peace office and not law enforcement officers. We need to support the police, even while we work to improve them.

[Charles L. Cotton]

This thread is perilously close to be nothing more than general cop-bashing in violation of Rule 9. If it continues in this manner, it will be deleted.

I'd like someone to point me to the Texas statute that authorizes any elected official to order businesses to close, people stay at home, or to wear a mask. (Hint: This is a trick question.)

Chas.

[rtschl]

This thread is perilously close to be nothing more than general cop-bashing in violation of Rule 9. If it continues in this manner, it will be deleted.

I'd like someone to point me to the Texas statute that authorizes any elected official to order businesses to close, people stay at home, or to wear a mask. (Hint: This is a trick question.)

Chas.

Charles,

I sincerely am not bashing police and hope none of my comments have come across as such and was never my intention when I started this thread. I am very concerned that good will towards the police i.e. "Back The Blue" has been hurt during this time. A lot of effort by police departments and communities has been put forward to build good relationships and I do not wish to see that eroded.

I am not a lawyer, but I am not aware of any statute that exists in Texas that gives that specific authority to anyone unless it is the emergency powers granted in Chapter 418. But as a layman I am not sure that it goes that far.

Thank you.

[puma guy]

I'd like someone to point me to the Texas statute that authorizes any elected official to order businesses to close, people stay at home, or to wear a mask. (Hint: This is a trick question.)

Chas.

I'm reminded of a story told to me by my brother who was in the photography business. A German film, photographic chemical and paper manufacturer would test their potential new hires by giving them the task of reproducing a color print from a negative. They provided the paper and chemistry and sent them into the dark room. Many came very close and would present their results, only those who said it can't be done were hired.