Practical Implementation of Universal Background Checks

[valu8r]

As we all know, "universal background checks" are all the rage now, particularly with the Bloomberg groups, anti-gun politicians, and the media. Most of my friends and neighbors think it's a good idea and "just makes sense". They have not thought through the practical realities of making it work.

If my neighbor and I agree to the exchange of a pistol - a private transaction - under the new law, one or both of us would have to run a background check, probably through an FFL. We all know that criminals will not comply, which is one of the foremost reasons this is an ineffective public policy. But what about me and my neighbor (both law abiding citizens)? If we simply ignore the background check requirement, how will the authorities/prosecutor know that the transaction even took place? How would they know a crime occurred? How would a prosecutor establish ownership (title) to the weapon, either before or after the transaction? As a practical matter, such laws would be completely ineffective in my opinion. Unless, of course, there is a registration database...

With that in mind, here are a few questions/talking points; I'm hoping those with more knowledge than me can answer some of these questions. For purchases from an FFL, you go through an instant background check and fill out the ATF form 4473 (Firearms Transaction Record). As I understand it, the FFL must keep these forms for 20 years. The form is not transmitted to the ATF, but the ATF has the right to inspect or copy the forms as part of a criminal investigation. Additionally, no records are kept as part of NICS (think I heard once a federal database is specifically prohibited by law). Any FFLs out there - is my understanding correct about these?

If this is the case, universal background checks has no chance of working without a federal registration database. So what would keep a President Warren or President Bloomberg from simply beefing up the ATF budget and sending out armies of ATF agents to "inspect" and copy the forms 4473? These forms have all the essential information on them, including serial numbers. Then, voila! the feds have their registration database which could form the basis of licensing laws, inspections, private sales monitoring, and yes, even confiscation. Could it happen? What kind of exposure do gun owners have?

[Jago668]

It would put you up for a felony if you transferred a gun after the law went into place, because there is no way you could claim you sold the gun before the law. Most of the time not a big deal, but if it gets stolen then you got an issue. It would also serve to chill such sales as people aren't going to risk an ATF bust on unknown buyers. Though you are correct without a registration it isn't as much use to already owned guns.

Two things. One the law being ineffective is exactly what they want. You will see years later someone calling for a registration as they can't enforce the law as it is. Most of the people pushing this know that calling for a registration right off the bat won't fly. Two it isn't about stopping crime. The keyword to gun control isn't gun, it's control. They want more criminals. If there is more crime then you need the government to protect you more. Kind of hard to sell that if you can protect yourself.

[Middle Age Russ]

As you point out, the effectiveness of Universal Background Checks isn't expected to be measured by a drop in the criminal use of firearms. UBC isn't designed to affect criminals at all -- only otherwise law abiding citizens. It is also my understanding that a Government database of firearms ownership (the needed Registration database that would make UBC effective in at least one arena) is unlawful, at present. Of course, one could argue that Government steps outside the law from time to time, and that a large part of our Government is extra-legal, so to speak.

Beyond that, using forms 4473 as the basis of a registration database is only somewhat useful in the aggregate, and not at all for a specific transaction. The background check is done prior to a purchase and doesn't necessarily mean that the purchase was made in each individual instance.

[philip964]

Remember the frog in the pan of water on the stove. If the water was boiling the Frog jumps out immediately. If the water is nice and is just being warmed by the stove, the frog stays in and is cooked.

Universal background checks won't work as soon as its passed, a crazy will shoot up a gun free zone and we will find it did nothing. So then we will need registration. And we know what happens after registration.

They even admitted that Obamacare was designed to fail and that would lead with Hillary as President to single payer and that was the plan all along.