Demistify Penal Code 46.03.a.1 (Schools)

[Kalrog]

language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun"; or

Of all the parts of the law to get confused on or misinterpret, this should NOT be one of them. Identical, people!

Oh, and based on the earlier posts in this thread - my head just exploded.

[hirundo82]

I have a semi-related question regarding schools. I hope nobody minds me asking here.

Anyhow, I was wondering if the provisions of 46.03 apply equally to students as well as non-students. I just took the CHL class today, and my instructor was saying that GC 411.203, Rights of Employers, applies to students as well. Specifically, he said that students are not even allowed to have weapons on the grounds, eg secured in their vehicle or on a walkway. Is this correct, or can I carry on the grounds? I obviously cannot carry on the premises. I have not been notified verbally or in writing that I cannot carry on school grounds; the school building itself is posted with a non-30.06 compliant "no weapons" (ie "Ghostbusters") sign.

On a related note, I thought I had read that employers cannot ban employees from keeping a firearm in their vehicle (ie no criminal penalties can be applied; they can obviously still be terminated). However, this was directly contradicted in class. What is the word on this?

I've been lurking around here for a while and have learned a lot; thanks everybody for the education and I hope to learn much more.

[jimlongley]

And if the school district posts the driveways with 30.06 signs? Of course, Plano Independent School Districts signs do not comply with 30.06, but when I called the state to find out who enforces the provision that the signs had to meet the parameters stated in the law, I was told that they considered just the attempt to be a valid posting and did I want to be a test case.

Schools districts are units of local government, so 30.06 signs are ineffective on parking lots.

...

I must admit I'm getting quite tired of people who should be role models for law abiding citizens ignoring the clear and unambiguous requirements of the law.

Regards,
Chas.

Which is basically why I was calling them. All I wanted to know was who to call to see to it that the school district came into compliance with the law.

BTW, Plano feels that the "Independent" in their title means they are not a unuit of local government.

[da.suxor]

I have a semi-related question regarding schools. I hope nobody minds me asking here.

Anyhow, I was wondering if the provisions of 46.03 apply equally to students as well as non-students. I just took the CHL class today, and my instructor was saying that GC 411.203, Rights of Employers, applies to students as well. Specifically, he said that students are not even allowed to have weapons on the grounds, eg secured in their vehicle or on a walkway. Is this correct, or can I carry on the grounds? I obviously cannot carry on the premises. I have not been notified verbally or in writing that I cannot carry on school grounds; the school building itself is posted with a non-30.06 compliant "no weapons" (ie "Ghostbusters") sign.

On a related note, I thought I had read that employers cannot ban employees from keeping a firearm in their vehicle (ie no criminal penalties can be applied; they can obviously still be terminated). However, this was directly contradicted in class. What is the word on this?

I've been lurking around here for a while and have learned a lot; thanks everybody for the education and I hope to learn much more.

There is another thread on this, but let me recap.

If an employer verbialy or in writing notifies you that no firearms are allowed on the premise using the standard 30.06 verbiage, you are criminaly treaspasing. If the employer has 30.06 signs posted at the entrance to the parking lot, then you can not carry there either.

Lastly, most people say that if your employer has made efforts to tell it's employees that firearms are not allowed, regardless of legality of the format, it's your job at risk.

[gigag04]

If an employer verbialy or in writing notifies you that no firearms are allowed on the premise using the standard 30.06 verbiage, you are criminaly treaspasing. If the employer has 30.06 signs posted at the entrance to the parking lot, then you can not carry there either.

Lastly, most people say that if your employer has made efforts to tell it's employees that firearms are not allowed, regardless of legality of the format, it's your job at risk.

I believe that any sort of "NO GUN" sign affect employees. That includes gun busters, "weapons free" signs, and other non-compliant signage.

I could be incorrect, but even if the policy says no guns, then you are trespassing.

[bauerdj]

I think, if the policy says "no guns" you are NOT trespassing. You are however subject to dismissal.

[da.suxor]

If an employer verbialy or in writing notifies you that no firearms are allowed on the premise using the standard 30.06 verbiage, you are criminaly treaspasing. If the employer has 30.06 signs posted at the entrance to the parking lot, then you can not carry there either.

Lastly, most people say that if your employer has made efforts to tell it's employees that firearms are not allowed, regardless of legality of the format, it's your job at risk.

I believe that any sort of "NO GUN" sign affect employees. That includes gun busters, "weapons free" signs, and other non-compliant signage.

I could be incorrect, but even if the policy says no guns, then you are trespassing.

Treaspassing as far as company policy, but not criminaly. Fired yes, arrested, no.

[1TallTXn]

This is a rather interesting and confusing topic.

an interesting read to be sure.

I work for a private University. at present I do NOT carry. I do however leave the gun in the car. When I took the CHL class the instructor took great care to point out that you can leave the gun in the car w/o breaking any laws.

I have read through a fair bit of the Staff/Faculty handbook, and I see no mention of weapons at all. either in the positive or negative sense.

From what I read of the penal code (don't remember exactly where) it is implied that if you have permission from a private school, you may carry there.

Does anyone know if this is the case?

I have not talked to anyone here on campus about its, as most are a little too liberal for that to be accepted

[Charles L. Cotton]

1TallTXn

TPC §46.03(a)(1) makes it unlawful to carry firearms into a university building, whether it is a public or private university. TPC §46.03(c)(1) adopts the narrow definition of “premises� found in TPC §46.035(f)(3) that excludes parking lots. Therefore, you do not violate §46.03(a)(1) by leaving your gun in the car.

However, trespass under TPC §30.06 can be an issue for a parking lot in a private university. Unlike a government-owned university, a private university can post 30.06 signs to prohibit carrying in a parking lot or garage. However, since there are no signs at your university, you can legally leave the gun in your car, without violating the trespass statute (TPC §30.06).

You could ask for permission to carry in the school building, but I don't think that would be wise. If your request is refused and they verbally tell you "no guns" anywhere on school property, then you would have been given proper verbal notice under TPC §30.06, even without a sign, and it would then be unlawful for you to leave the gun in your car.

Regards,
Chas.

[1TallTXn]

Thanks a bunch!

Thats pretty much what I had assumed, but its nice to have a confirmation from someone in the know.

FWIW the school has NO SIGNS anywhere on campus. so I guess I will just continue doing what I've done.

Thanks again!

[GrillKing]

Lastly, most people say that if your employer has made efforts to tell it's employees that firearms are not allowed, regardless of legality of the format, it's your job at risk.

Your job could be at risk regardless of whether your employer has made efforts to tell it's employees that firearms are not allowed. I believe Texas is an at will state and the employer doesn't need a reason to let you go.

[da.suxor]

Lastly, most people say that if your employer has made efforts to tell it's employees that firearms are not allowed, regardless of legality of the format, it's your job at risk.

Your job could be at risk regardless of whether your employer has made efforts to tell it's employees that firearms are not allowed. I believe Texas is an at will state and the employer doesn't need a reason to let you go.

Yes, it is a work at will state. That is irrelevant of the discussion though. They can not fire for "having a firearm on the premise" if they have no supporting information to substantiate the claim. They can however, release you for no reason whatsoever at no risk.

[GrillKing]

Yes, it is a work at will state. That is irrelevant of the discussion though. They can not fire for "having a firearm on the premise" if they have no supporting information to substantiate the claim. They can however, release you for no reason whatsoever at no risk.

I believe it is relevent to the discussion and I think we are saying the same thing. They can fire you for "having a firearm on the premise", regardless of whether you have been given notice. All they have to say is "Your services are no longer needed".

My point is (and I think yours as well) that whether you have been given any kind of notice won't necessarily save your job if they want you gone they will find a way.