Texan Jailed After Defensive Gun Use

[oljames3]

Kirkman was held at the DeWitt County Jail on a murder charge after an August shootout in which he shot and killed Manuel Martinez III, 36, at his home on Bootlegger Lane near Yoakum. Kirkman was imprisoned for 55 days in lieu of a $500,000 bond.

https://www.victoriaadvocate.com/counti ... 1ed02.html

[WTR]

Why in the heck was he ever charged?

[Scott B.]

Good grief! I hope that young man is able to regain or find employment and get the heck out of that county.

[flechero]

Wow! I missed that one originally, if it was reported.

[Soccerdad1995]

Something is definitely off here. The DA is making public statements that support this guys innocence, like "he must have been scared for his life", and "if he had not been crouching in his seat he would have likely been hit". Physical evidence shows 27 rounds fired by the dead guy and one round fired by the survivor of this fight. Unless the dead guys wife gave eye witness testimony that the survivor initiated the shootout, how was the survivor even charged in the first place? There must be more to this story.

Still, the survivor is better off than if he had not been armed. Spending 55 days in jail is better than being dead.

This also makes an interesting note for the caliber war discussions.

[philip964]

Wow that is some story.

So it was the Sheriff, not the DA that arrested him and put him in jail for 55 days. It was the judge who decided on bail of $500,000 for a self defense shooting.

Someone fires 11 times at you with with semi automatic rifles and you return fire with a single shot from .22 caliber bolt action rifle and that is the only round you have with you, the one in the chamber and your charged with murder. Please.

Only negative for our sharpshooter here is he left the scene, rather than calling 911 rendering aid and waiting for the Sheriff.

Good job DA and Grand Jury.

[bblhd672]

This also makes an interesting note for the caliber war discussions.

. An AR-15 and .40-caliber pistol were found near Martinez’s body along with 15 rifle and 12 pistol casings.

One well placed .22 hit is better than 27 misses by any caliber.

[Soccerdad1995]

Wow that is some story.

So it was the Sheriff, not the DA that arrested him and put him in jail for 55 days. It was the judge who decided on bail of $500,000 for a self defense shooting.

Someone fires 11 times at you with with semi automatic rifles and you return fire with a single shot from .22 caliber bolt action rifle and that is the only round you have with you, the one in the chamber and your charged with murder. Please.

Only negative for our sharpshooter here is he left the scene, rather than calling 911 rendering aid and waiting for the Sheriff.

Good job DA and Grand Jury.

Maybe he read on the internet that a .22lr round is inadequate for self-defense and reasonably assumed that the guy was still a threat. And to be clear the other guy fired 27 rounds in total from 2 different weapons.

In light of the Dallas incident, and since this Sheriff apparently decided to jail this guy for 55 days, I have to ask whether he would do the same to one of his officers with similar facts (except hopefully the officer would be armed with something more than a .22 bolt action rifle)?

I'm still thinking that it's possible there is more to this story, especially since the guy came to the other man's house to get his girlfriend from folks that he "didn't want her to be around". Was he waiting patiently in his truck after texting his girl asking her to please come out, or did he kick the door open and start dragging her out of there, or is the truth somewhere in between? Absent further information here it definitely does not look good for whoever decided that this guy needed to spend 55 days in jail.

[KLB]

Something is definitely off here. The DA is making public statements that support this guys innocence . . .

Politics is what's off. The longstanding joke (and virtual reality) is that prosecutors can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. This prosecutor didn`t want an indictment, but he wanted to hide behind the grand jury. That let's him wash his hands like Pontius Pilate.

[Soccerdad1995]

Something is definitely off here. The DA is making public statements that support this guys innocence . . .

Politics is what's off. The longstanding joke (and virtual reality) is that prosecutors can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. This prosecutor didn`t want an indictment, but he wanted to hide behind the grand jury. That let's him wash his hands like Pontius Pilate.

I agree that he didn't want the indictment. His statements sound like he was the defense attorney. Maybe he wanted to go to the grand jury because he thought there might be protests (the race of the dead guy appears to be different than that of the survivor). Then when no protests materialized, he made it clear that he never thought the survivor committed a crime.

[flechero]

Only negative for our sharpshooter here is he left the scene, rather than calling 911 rendering aid and waiting for the Sheriff.

It could be that the one shot did not stop the man but only slowed him enough to allow the man [now] without ammo to retreat, while still in reasonable fear... I know I'd be on the retreat after expelling my ONLY round of ammo.

I'm thinking that he was initially arrested because the dead guy was at home and this guy came over to his house (to pick up his GF) and there was a feud between them already. Not saying it's right, only that it may have looked like the living guy showed up looking for trouble.

[oljames3]

Interesting points:
* Defensive gun user was arrested
* Bail set at $500,000
* 55 days in jail
* No-billed by grand jury

Appearantly, innocent defensive gun users do get arrested in Texas. Perhaps, if he had an effective legal plan/policy/protection, bail would have been less and/or he could have had protection for bail also. We may never know.

[rotor]

Interesting points:
* Defensive gun user was arrested
* Bail set at $500,000
* 55 days in jail
* No-billed by grand jury

Appearantly, innocent defensive gun users do get arrested in Texas. Perhaps, if he had an effective legal plan/policy/protection, bail would have been less and/or he could have had protection for bail also. We may never know.

He is 19, not an LTC holder and used a .22LR rifle with a single round. The average person does not have a "legal" plan and this guy probably didn't have money for bail. Now if he was a LTC holder with a "legal" plan things might have been different. Still crazy that he went to jail for 55 days.

[Noggin]

Interesting points:
* Defensive gun user was arrested
* Bail set at $500,000
* 55 days in j
* No-billed by grand jury

Appearantly, innocent defensive gun users do get arrested in Texas. Perhaps, if he had an effective legal plan/policy/protection, bail would have been less and/or he could have had protection for bail also. We may never know.

Which is why I have one such plan (I am not going to advertise for them here) but they did recently get a guy acquitted from a Murder One charge in another state, which gives me some measure of reassurance. Texas is of course not exactly politically homogeneous - For example if I had to defend myself with my weapon in the Austin area I would have more worries than if I faced exactly them same situation in my home county, where I attend local Sheriff's Association meetings and got to know some of the deputies during several weeks of the Citizen's Academy.

[ELB]

This is a strange one.

Here’s an earlier article of the incident, doesn’t mention number of rounds nor AR15 being used. Makes it seem much less definitive.


https://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/c ... 21e9c.html