Walked out of Academy Last Night

[The Annoyed Man]

Many of you are too young to know that the Gun Control Act of 1968 required ALL pistol ammunition purchasers provide an ID (DL) and recording the information in a log book. Pistol ammo included .22 rimfire. I got out of the retail sporting goods business in the early 70's, so I 'm not sure when the law changed. It was quite irksome when we ran .22 LR on sale for 33¢ a box; I had to have one clerk do nothing but record ammo sales. There was a two box limit, but guys would keep returning, so I'd let them buy a brick if they weren't jerks.

I'm not too young to remember that......but I wasn't involved in the gun world back then, so I had no idea. This is the first I've ever heard of it!

So I googled for the original text (the law was modified in 1993): https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-8 ... 1213-2.pdf. I am certainly no lawyer, and I didn't read every line of the godforsaken thing, but I did find this:

§ 922 Unlawful Acts

(a) It shall be unlawful -

• *'(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter.

What I haven't seen is where the dealer was required to log the sale of ammunition.....but like I said, I didn't read the whole thing. I was breaking out in hives......

You know, we just accepted that from the company's directive (SOP). The law itself was a magazine bound volume about an 1½' thick, on very thin paper I might add, I did read much of the bill. I don't remember now if keeping logs was officially stated or not. I definitely know we had to do it and I always presented the log to any ATF agents when they came to audit us, along with our 4473 forms and firearms receipt and inventory records. The ammo log book may have been our way based on counsel's opinion to assure we were in compliance with the age requirements for ammunition sales. from Wiki " Under the Gun Control Act, a federally licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or collector shall not sell or deliver any rifle or shotgun or ammunition for rifle or shotgun to any individual less than 18 years of age, nor any handgun or ammunition for a handgun to any individual less than 21 years of age. " I concentrated on the requirements for firearm sales and record keeping to stay in compliance with the laws and to prove to the many naysayers who would balk or refuse to believe they had to provide ID, fill out and sign a form to buy a firearm. I could turn to the sections to prove it to the customers who politely questioned or were just unfamiliar with the new laws, but for the real jerks I'd just toss the big book on the counter and tell them "it's all in there, bud"!
I also remember the part about caliber limitations and the language regarding .50 caliber and larger ammo. I think every one of those rounds had to be accounted for in some manner, but I don't recall the details.

Regarding recording ammo sales as a result of the Gun Control Act of (GCA) 1968. I ran across this when on wikipedia when I was checking the Firearms Protection Act (FOPA) of 1986. My memory is not as bad as I thought.

The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA) addressed the abuses noted in the 1982 Senate Judiciary Subcommittee report. Among the reforms intended to loosen restrictions on gun sales were the reopening of interstate sales of long guns on a limited basis, legalization of ammunition shipments through the U.S. Postal Service (a partial repeal of the Gun Control Act), removal of the requirement for record keeping on sales of non-armor-piercing ammunition, and federal protection of transportation of firearms through states where possession of those firearms would otherwise be illegal.[2] However, the Act also contained a provision that banned the sale of machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment to civilians, restricting sales of these weapons to the military and law enforcement. Thus, in the ensuing years, the limited supply of these arms available to civilians has caused an enormous increase in their price, with most costing in excess of $10,000. Regarding these fully automatic firearms owned by private citizens in the U.S., political scientist Earl Kruschke said "approximately 175,000 automatic firearms have been licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (the federal agency responsible for administration of the law) and evidence suggests that none of these weapons has ever been used to commit a violent crime."[3]:85

The gun rights movement lobbied Congress to pass the FOPA to prevent the abuse of regulatory power — in particular, to address claims that the ATF was repeatedly inspecting FFL holders for the apparent purpose of harassment intended to drive the FFL holders out of business (as the FFL holders would constantly be having to tend to ATF inspections instead of to customers).

The Act mandated that ATF compliance inspections can be done only once per year. An exception to the "once per year" rule exists if multiple record-keeping violations are recorded in an inspection, in which case the ATF may do a follow-up inspection. The main reason for a follow-up inspection would be if guns could not be accounted for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_O ... ection_Act

Funny you should post that. I was just reading up on the GCA of 68 the other day, and saw that requirement and thought of this thread. I actually intended to come back here and post about it, but being an old fart, I forgot.

[puma guy]

Many of you are too young to know that the Gun Control Act of 1968 required ALL pistol ammunition purchasers provide an ID (DL) and recording the information in a log book. Pistol ammo included .22 rimfire. I got out of the retail sporting goods business in the early 70's, so I 'm not sure when the law changed. It was quite irksome when we ran .22 LR on sale for 33¢ a box; I had to have one clerk do nothing but record ammo sales. There was a two box limit, but guys would keep returning, so I'd let them buy a brick if they weren't jerks.

I'm not too young to remember that......but I wasn't involved in the gun world back then, so I had no idea. This is the first I've ever heard of it!

So I googled for the original text (the law was modified in 1993): https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-8 ... 1213-2.pdf. I am certainly no lawyer, and I didn't read every line of the godforsaken thing, but I did find this:

§ 922 Unlawful Acts

(a) It shall be unlawful -

• *'(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter.

What I haven't seen is where the dealer was required to log the sale of ammunition.....but like I said, I didn't read the whole thing. I was breaking out in hives......

You know, we just accepted that from the company's directive (SOP). The law itself was a magazine bound volume about an 1½' thick, on very thin paper I might add, I did read much of the bill. I don't remember now if keeping logs was officially stated or not. I definitely know we had to do it and I always presented the log to any ATF agents when they came to audit us, along with our 4473 forms and firearms receipt and inventory records. The ammo log book may have been our way based on counsel's opinion to assure we were in compliance with the age requirements for ammunition sales. from Wiki " Under the Gun Control Act, a federally licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or collector shall not sell or deliver any rifle or shotgun or ammunition for rifle or shotgun to any individual less than 18 years of age, nor any handgun or ammunition for a handgun to any individual less than 21 years of age. " I concentrated on the requirements for firearm sales and record keeping to stay in compliance with the laws and to prove to the many naysayers who would balk or refuse to believe they had to provide ID, fill out and sign a form to buy a firearm. I could turn to the sections to prove it to the customers who politely questioned or were just unfamiliar with the new laws, but for the real jerks I'd just toss the big book on the counter and tell them "it's all in there, bud"!
I also remember the part about caliber limitations and the language regarding .50 caliber and larger ammo. I think every one of those rounds had to be accounted for in some manner, but I don't recall the details.

Regarding recording ammo sales as a result of the Gun Control Act of (GCA) 1968. I ran across this when on wikipedia when I was checking the Firearms Protection Act (FOPA) of 1986. My memory is not as bad as I thought.

The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA) addressed the abuses noted in the 1982 Senate Judiciary Subcommittee report. Among the reforms intended to loosen restrictions on gun sales were the reopening of interstate sales of long guns on a limited basis, legalization of ammunition shipments through the U.S. Postal Service (a partial repeal of the Gun Control Act), removal of the requirement for record keeping on sales of non-armor-piercing ammunition, and federal protection of transportation of firearms through states where possession of those firearms would otherwise be illegal.[2] However, the Act also contained a provision that banned the sale of machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment to civilians, restricting sales of these weapons to the military and law enforcement. Thus, in the ensuing years, the limited supply of these arms available to civilians has caused an enormous increase in their price, with most costing in excess of $10,000. Regarding these fully automatic firearms owned by private citizens in the U.S., political scientist Earl Kruschke said "approximately 175,000 automatic firearms have been licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (the federal agency responsible for administration of the law) and evidence suggests that none of these weapons has ever been used to commit a violent crime."[3]:85

The gun rights movement lobbied Congress to pass the FOPA to prevent the abuse of regulatory power — in particular, to address claims that the ATF was repeatedly inspecting FFL holders for the apparent purpose of harassment intended to drive the FFL holders out of business (as the FFL holders would constantly be having to tend to ATF inspections instead of to customers).

The Act mandated that ATF compliance inspections can be done only once per year. An exception to the "once per year" rule exists if multiple record-keeping violations are recorded in an inspection, in which case the ATF may do a follow-up inspection. The main reason for a follow-up inspection would be if guns could not be accounted for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_O ... ection_Act

Funny you should post that. I was just reading up on the GCA of 68 the other day, and saw that requirement and thought of this thread. I actually intended to come back here and post about it, but being an old fart, I forgot.

What can I say? Great minds think alike!

[puma guy]

I know this is not a timely reply, but I spoke to an acquaintance of mine that is a store manager at Academy. An employee referred to him as the Store Director. I'll make it short. The store is obligated to make sure a person can legally purchase ammo. That's the law and their policy is in place to address it. According to him typically they don't ask for ID if it's obvious the person is old enough to buy ammo. It's possible the OP's store has interpreted the policy in the strictest application to ID everyone and as a representative of the company he couldn't criticize that decision which I can respect. Personally I wouldn't make a big deal out of being asked for my ID buying ammo, anymore than if i was asked for ID to buy alcohol or tobacco. I recall once being asked if the .22 ammo I purchased was for a pistol or rifle. I just said it was for a rifle; maybe a I looked like a very young 69 year old.

[Jusme]

I have only been asked for my DOB. they never have asked to see my ID for ammo. The last time I was there, last Saturday, I picked up some shotgun shells, and a box of 9mm. They didn't even ask for my DOB. As I posted earlier in this thread, the last time they asked for my DOB, I said 7-4-76. No one batted an eye, not realizing that it shaved at least 15 years off of my age, nor that I didn't provide a century.

I think it is like most POS registers, in that it gives them a notice that they need to verify age, for certain items i.e cigarettes, alcohol, etc. I guess the last clerk just put in a date that would indicate that the purchaser was of legal age. I just hope she didn't make me 99 years old.

[Bubba]

This happened to me a few weeks ago at the Academy in Weatherford when I tried
to buy 2 magazines for PT 111. No ammo. Nothing else. Academy has lost my business
forever.

[Soccerdad1995]

This just happened to me last week when I was buying a bottle of Frog Lube to try out. No ammo, no magazines, no weapons. Just lubricant that could be used on a firearm. They asked me for ID, I asked the girl why and she held up the bottle.

Academy is really getting out of control.

[flechero]

I got ID'd a walmart this weekend because there was a SHARPIE (marker) in my basket... and I'm in my late 40's...

I was so surprised that I just I complied.

[2farnorth]

This just happened to me last week when I was buying a bottle of Frog Lube to try out. No ammo, no magazines, no weapons. Just lubricant that could be used on a firearm. They asked me for ID, I asked the girl why and she held up the bottle.

Academy is really getting out of control.

Sorry but the government is forcing this issue. In my store we can bë fined for not checking id on numorus items. Just last year they (the state inspector) added a whole bunch of stuff to the requirement. Pool stuff, all spray cans, wood stain, any oil based paints, kerosine, fence sealer/stain, most oil based products, and etc Ect.... If it is liquid or spray and it is a hardware store type item then figure on id. If i know the person and know they qualified to buy then I may enter an approximately birthdate. If I don't know them then I am required to check I D. They may bë a patsy working for the state.
The stores have very little leeway.

[bblhd672]

This just happened to me last week when I was buying a bottle of Frog Lube to try out. No ammo, no magazines, no weapons. Just lubricant that could be used on a firearm. They asked me for ID, I asked the girl why and she held up the bottle.

Academy is really getting out of control.

Sorry but the government is forcing this issue. In my store we can bë fined for not checking id on numorus items. Just last year they (the state inspector) added a whole bunch of stuff to the requirement. Pool stuff, all spray cans, wood stain, any oil based paints, kerosine, fence sealer/stain, most oil based products, and etc Ect.... If it is liquid or spray and it is a hardware store type item then figure on id. If i know the person and know they qualified to buy then I may enter an approximately birthdate. If I don't know them then I am required to check I D. They may bë a patsy working for the state.
The stores have very little leeway.

Law abiding citizens ALWAYS are penalized for the misdeeds of criminals and idiots. Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

[Grundy1133]

I know this is not a timely reply, but I spoke to an acquaintance of mine that is a store manager at Academy. An employee referred to him as the Store Director. I'll make it short. The store is obligated to make sure a person can legally purchase ammo. That's the law and their policy is in place to address it. According to him typically they don't ask for ID if it's obvious the person is old enough to buy ammo. It's possible the OP's store has interpreted the policy in the strictest application to ID everyone and as a representative of the company he couldn't criticize that decision which I can respect. Personally I wouldn't make a big deal out of being asked for my ID buying ammo, anymore than if i was asked for ID to buy alcohol or tobacco. I recall once being asked if the .22 ammo I purchased was for a pistol or rifle. I just said it was for a rifle; maybe a I looked like a very young 69 year old.

I would have said, NOT that it's any of your business, but I plan on making necklaces and keychains out of them. Is that fine with you?

[ScottDLS]

This just happened to me last week when I was buying a bottle of Frog Lube to try out. No ammo, no magazines, no weapons. Just lubricant that could be used on a firearm. They asked me for ID, I asked the girl why and she held up the bottle.

Academy is really getting out of control.

Sorry but the government is forcing this issue. In my store we can bë fined for not checking id on numorus items. Just last year they (the state inspector) added a whole bunch of stuff to the requirement. Pool stuff, all spray cans, wood stain, any oil based paints, kerosine, fence sealer/stain, most oil based products, and etc Ect.... If it is liquid or spray and it is a hardware store type item then figure on id. If i know the person and know they qualified to buy then I may enter an approximately birthdate. If I don't know them then I am required to check I D. They may bë a patsy working for the state.
The stores have very little leeway.

Can you be fined if the “patsy” is in fact over 21 or whatever age to buy pool chemicals, glue, spray paint etc. That would seem to preclude the necessity of asking for someone who is clearly old enough. I’m 51, unless you’re blind you don’t need my DL to know that I am over 21.

[puma guy]

This just happened to me last week when I was buying a bottle of Frog Lube to try out. No ammo, no magazines, no weapons. Just lubricant that could be used on a firearm. They asked me for ID, I asked the girl why and she held up the bottle.

Academy is really getting out of control.

Sorry but the government is forcing this issue. In my store we can bë fined for not checking id on numorus items. Just last year they (the state inspector) added a whole bunch of stuff to the requirement. Pool stuff, all spray cans, wood stain, any oil based paints, kerosine, fence sealer/stain, most oil based products, and etc Ect.... If it is liquid or spray and it is a hardware store type item then figure on id. If i know the person and know they qualified to buy then I may enter an approximately birthdate. If I don't know them then I am required to check I D. They may bë a patsy working for the state.
The stores have very little leeway.

Can you be fined if the “patsy” is in fact over 21 or whatever age to buy pool chemicals, glue, spray paint etc. That would seem to preclude the necessity of asking for someone who is clearly old enough. I’m 51, unless you’re blind you don’t need my DL to know that I am over 21.

A 17 year old clerk probably can't determine the difference between 21 and 51 since to them everyone older than them is in that "old man" group!

[Gunner4640]

They never ask me for anything except my hard earned money

[Allons]

Never had any problems at the Academy I go to, I guess that's because I'm in their so often everybody knows me.

[mojo84]

I think some people are just too easily offended.