Its Time to Texit.

[PriestTheRunner]

Hello all,
Despite the sake of this being a political post, I hope the comments and discussions below can be respectful and considerate towards all opinions and options.

Guys, I am to the point that I feel compelled to openly state that the State of Texas needs to hold a public referendum ballot for all Texans to vote whether we should remain a US State or go back to being an independent country. It is my personal belief that not only do we need to have an open and public discussion on #Texit but also that when you vote, you need to check the leave box. I came to this decision several months ago and have been more and more convinced that not only is this what is best for Texas, it is best for America as well.

First Point: I initially realized the fatal direction of the union when the omnibus spending bill passed. Doing the math, our ‘representatives’ passed a bill that took the annual US spending to $4,407,000,000,000.00 of our money for fiscal year 2018 (proof) and (context). Looking to get that into ‘real’ numbers, I divided that out by the current population of the United States (325.7mil) and that came out to spending $13,530.86 for each man, woman and child in the USA. While that might not sound like a lot, you have to account for the fact that that is per person… Since I have five people in my happy little family, that comes out to spending $67,654.28 on my family’s behalf. The US Government spent more on my behalf than my household makes per year. I personally find that completely unacceptable. All of this is aside from the fact that it is basically impossible for a few hundred representatives to accurately reflect the desires and values of 320+ million americans, and as such you wind up with several areas of spending that at least half of the citizenship doesn't agree with. Just look at the Summary of Appropriations Provisions put out by the Democrat's half of the Committee of Appropriations... There are a lot of dollars being throw around that I don't agree with. If members of a different state want to spend tons of money on an education program, great. Let them spend their own money. Same thing goes for us Texans. But having everyone being able to reach into every other state's pockets had led us down a destructive path. One clear example is the bi-partisan STOP School Violence Act of 2018. It passed by a wide margin and almost everyone agrees that it is needed, but in doing so it contributed an additional 50 Million per year to federal spending. While school security is a notable goal, how is the Federal Government supposed to decide for each school and each state what methods are worthy of consideration? While Texas may want reinforced glass, California may want armed guards, and Oklahoma may want none of it and just to remove LTC restrictions. Why should California ‘lose out’ on funding for reinforced glass (That they don’t want), and Texas ‘lose out’ on funding for officers and Oklahoma lose out on all of it simply because the offered dollars doesn’t match their priorities? The result is that every state and every school will try to implement every single solution (even those that might not be effective in their situation) in a money-grab to get federal dollars. The result is rampant spending that may or may not be effective because you have thrown a blanket fix in a grant into the mix.

Second Point: I also recently started my own side business. Drafting buildings as a sole proprietor, from a tax side of things my company and I are one financially. (Basically, I do an architect’s job, but I can’t state that or advertise that way per Texas § 1051.703). But the frightening part of that fact is that there are so many tax laws, fraud laws and regulations that when I tried to research and understand any legal considerations for running my business (selecting and declining prospective projects, sending invoices, declaring income, mixing business and personal accounts, etc) there were literally too many rules for me to read or know them all. I very well could have (or currently am) broken/breaking laws that I don’t even know exist. There are around 5,000 criminal laws (which are a bit easier to navigate) but anywhere between 10,000-300,000 regulations that can be enforced as crimes, taking up hundreds of thousands of pages. Texas law was relatively easy to read and understand (IE, don’t draft buildings above X-size without an Architect’s Seal, don’t steal people’s money, contracts are binding, etc) but the Federal guidelines include possibilities for me ‘knowingly’ breaking ADA (which is 4000 pages alone, not including court cases), committing tax ‘fraud’ by accidental charging sales tax, returning it, and having used that as a deduction in a previous year, etc. ad nauseam to the point that I could literally be breaking the law today without knowing it- or even worse be breaking the law while trying to make the right decisions for my customers. Just look at this example of regulations over 18 months alone. I strongly encourage everyone who hasn’t to read Harvey Silverglate’s Three Felonies a Day. It is really eye opening on the vast array of entrapments that exist.

[PriestTheRunner]

Third Point: There is the gross overstepping of boundaries where the federal government has reached outside of its bounds and is controlling or drastically influencing things to which it should have ABSOLUTELY no say. I place this directly at the feet of the court case of Wickard v. Filburn. From this one court case, the federal government has stepped into markets that it had absolutely no constitutional authority to act. Some major examples are weed or any controlled substance (that is supposed to be at the state’s discretion), firearm regulation, speed limits, education, healthcare and on and on and on. The federal government is supposed to be constrained to the brief 7,591 words of the Constitution and Amendments, and constrained to THAT ALONE . The vast majority of problems we are seeing with internal conflict in the United States are due to the fact that we are trying to determine a one-size-fits-all solution for a vast array of issues that are supposed to be self-determined where the STATES get to experiment and decide what works for them. If California wants to experiment with universal healthcare or universal basic income, more power to them. If Texas wants to try out a charter system of education with cash payments as a means of expanding educational options, more power to us. The idea that school charters need to be applied to a whole federation as wide and diverse as the United States is ASININE. What works for Texans almost definitely will not work for others. (And doubly so for Crazy California!). The fact of the matter is, we are supposed to be able to self-determine what decisions we want to make in public policy.

Finally, back on taxation… Texas sends about 265 Billion dollars annually to the Federal government, but only gets back about 162 Billion. In other words, if ALL Texas dollars were kept in Texas, we would have a 100-120 Billion Dollar surplus to lower Texas taxes and keep in Texan’s pockets. This would come out to about $4,239.00 dollars PER TEXAN PER YEAR. And that is if Texan continued spending the exact same amount that Texas and the Federal Government spend in Texas right now (Hint: it includes social security payments, if it came to that). Keeping those dollars here would encourage Texas business, increase the income of the lowest earners, and provide possibly the best business friendly environment on the planet.

Because of this, I am going to be working to get Texit on the ballot. I am working with the Texas Nationalist Movement to get our legislature to put a referendum on a November ballot (but not this November) and get Texans the CHOICE of whether we want to stay or not. I am one of the county coordinators and will be looking to build a network of like-minded Texans to get the vote on the matter.

Texit has consistently polled 35% or higher for over a decade. More recently, it appears Texit is polling AROUND 56% for republicans and was even take to a floor vote at the convention. At the 2016 republican convention, many local representatives say the vote was in favor of adding Texit to the party’s platform (and the audio seems to confirm this where the Ayes cheered immediately after the vote) but was overruled by the chair who conveniently left the amendment up during the standing vote so that the video evidence could not produce a tally. (See link for video). Reuters has Secession polling around 35% overall in Texas for 2014 and John Zogby Strategies found that more Americans believe a vote on peaceful secession should be allowed than not allowed, across ALL demographics. The idea that this is constrained to ‘angry old men’ is a myth. It polls within the margin of error as equal between white and Hispanics, and higher in young respondents compared to old. The highest in favor is actually males between 18 and 40, especially small business owners. It certainly is a valid topic of discussion in Texas with numbers this high. All of these factors indicate that Texas is ready to discuss Texit and take a vote.

To those of you who think Texas wouldn’t survive on its own, here are some surprising details:
~ Texas would have between the 7th and the 10th ranked economy worldwide
~ Texas has its own, fully independent electrical grid
~ Texas has its own water
~ Texas surpasses Saudia Arabia in oil exports, and provides ¼ of the United States (minus Texas) oil.
~ Texas is 6th in wind-energy production
~ Texas is home to 51 of the Fortune 500 companies
~ If Texas spent the average of 4% GDP on defense, we would be 10th in the world on defense spending, on par with Germany, Japan and India. This would be roughly twice the spending of Isreal, Italy and Australia. Texans make up about 12% of the current US military and account for 11.5% of the US population. With a Texas economy and attitude, defense would not be an issue.
~ If we maintained the exact ratios of Taxation that are paid today, we would be the 13th most well-funded government in the world, though we would likely reduce spending
~ Federal employees only account for 1.25% of the Texas workforce and they would likely keep their jobs working directly for the matching Texas organization under a free Texas

Please feel free to comment with any questions. For those of you who were willing to read this (rather long) post, thank you.
-Tim

[PriestTheRunner]

Sources:
https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s- ... ng-3305763
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... /70630978/
http://a.co/d/8YCkAvq Three Felonies A Day by Harvey Silverglate et al.
http://polling.reuters.com/#!response/T ... psed/false
http://polling.reuters.com/#!response/T ... psed/false
https://tnm.me/news/political/video-rel ... dependence Republican convention adding TEXIT to the platform.
https://tnm.me/news/political/confirmed ... an-staying Polling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... _(nominal)

[PriestTheRunner]

I believe we need to have a discussion on Texit and we need to have it now, despite what those 'on the other side' may see or think when they watch this forum. Though, if Charles wants to remove this from texaschlforum, it would be his right.

However, Charles' concerns are valid. We have documented evidence that both sides of political opinion frequent this forum and use at is a gauge of political opinion from the ‘pro-CHL’ side. As such, the forum rules certainly need to be followed on a topic that easily gets heated, and we absolutely have to remain stewards of the image of the law-abiding Texan. It is my personal goal in starting this thread that discussion can be had, and that any sticking points or reason for contention that I may not be aware would be revealed. It is much better in my opinion to have a thoughtful and dedicated discussion of Texit here among known law-abiding Texans who are may voice valid concerns so that such concerns can be heard on all sides and (if possible) a resolution to that concern be achieved. Whereas, if I were to not discuss this here, it is quite possible that in a different venue the same concern would be addressed and the pro-Texit side would not have the means to respond.

I would certainly consider the concerns against Texit from this group of people valid and to hold merit, as this is one of the best forums I have ever had the pleasure of reading; and the consideration given in this forum to refraining for pointless insults is top-notch.

(Edited to remove comparison).

[PriestTheRunner]

Finally, I know in the past a major point of contention is that if Texas were to vote pro-Texit, the US would militarily intervene.

First: I do not think that is politically viable because there is more political support for self-determination for states than against in the union. Here is Rueter's polling from 2014 showing that secession is politically recognizable, considering up to 25% of Americans are pro-secession (Raw Data). Considering the idea is that widespread, military intervention against a democratic and proper referendum would be politically awful, likely comparable to the Anti-Vietnam sentiment. Especially considering the intervention would be against 'our own'.

Second: US Intervention would go against and nullify US foreign policy that has been pro self-determination for nearly a century. Especially considering the recent support the US has given for Brexit and the UK to self-determine their government. While the US could turn its back on its own listed and historical foreign policy, it would be a disaster for foreign relations.

Third: The US going against self-determination (especially militarily) would break international law. The U.N. specifically recognizes the right to self-determination.

Fourth: And I know this one is an absolute last resort and would be rather awful: Texas could not be conquered. There are about 1,280,000 active US service personnel. About 25% of all military were ‘combat’ in Iraq per Page 83 of John J. McGrath’s Tooth-to-tail ratio. If we assume that All Texans currently enlisted refused to fight (while unlikely, any that didn’t would easily be offset by those from other states who also refused to fight), that 25% of 1.28 mil would drop to 281,600 persons. If even 15% of the mostly-southern military also refused to fight, that number would drop to 239,000- without VAST amounts of the necessary support personnel. On the Texas side of things, there are about 2,103,300 males between 20 and 44. Excluding all other ages and females, if as few as 8% of Texans within that age and gender range took up arms there would be 168,000 Texas combatants. That is not a war you win (so to speak), and the Pentagon would know it. I doubt Texas could sustain years of military conflict against the rest of the US and succeed, but I do know from the first minute a US soldier’s boot steps on Texas soil, the ‘popularity’ for Texas secession (and the right thereof) would skyrocket bot in Texas and in the States. It would galvanize the ‘yes’ voters and steadily flip thousands of the ‘no’ voters. Politically, it is not sustainable. Combining that with the fact that Texas imports 30% of US oil, and you have strong political desire to maintain a peaceful separation. As far as the ‘tanks, planes and drones’ argument, we had massive technological advantages in Vietnam and (basically) still lost. The Russians had massive technological advantages in Afghanistan and lost. ISIS had decent tech (and still does) and is losing rapidly. Technology isn’t everything. Support, infrastructure and public will are ABSOLUTELY everything.
An invasion of Texas is simply not politically, economically, legally or militarily viable. And that must be combined with the fact that the US would basically have to give up absolutely all foreign intervention in the meantime but the Pentagon seems to be addicted to foreign wars to take significant action against a Texit.

Feel free to correct me if you see an error in this view, but I think the greatest method of avoiding a ‘shooting war’ is to proceed with a Texit vote and allow one to two years for the negotiations to be had and the details to be ironed out. The process, while messy, can certainly be done. I have never known Texans to avoid doing something because of difficulty.

[PriestTheRunner]

Also Relevant: IF Texas seceded, we would likely see other states follow. It is not impossible or improbable that groups of like-minded states work to form their own regional federations. I doubt Texas would be willing to join any of them. But the instant Texas steps out of the ring, the political reality is that each and every state will get its sovereignty back because the federal government will finally be in-check by the states asserting their long-forgotten rights through the 10th amendment. Yes it would drastically change the world's power structure, but I'm not going to say that it would be for the worse since the US has a problem with interfering in other countries business anyway and the long train of abuses and usurpations has certainly spilling into almost any namable country on the planet.

I do ask that the conversation remain productive. I'm readily willing to back up any of my claims above that are missing direct data with data. I tried to get sources in wherever I could, but it is a pretty big wall of text. If anybody has something specific to discuss, please clip out the quote to be only the item of discussion, not the whole post, to keep this thing from being a scrolling nightmare.

[PriestTheRunner]

Invariably, someone is going to call the pro-Texit people America-haters or traitors. So be it. But I want everyone to know that I personally love America. I love the values and liberties she once stood for. But daily those liberties are trampled and forgotten in the fact that (1) we have a standing military that the founders never wanted, (2) we have a federal government that interjects itself in areas the founders could never have imagined, (3) we are helpless to stop the federal government’s overreach into spying in our lives on a daily basis, (4) we cannot stop the federal government from meddling in affairs overseas (See: Vietnam, Nicaragua, Honduras, Cuba, Middle East, ad nauseam), (5) we are constantly left with poor choices in major elections that have no means of representing their overly-wide body of constituents, (6) we have a government that refuses to bring spending into order despite having no historical examples of spending-gone-wild being successful, and finally (6) our government hides information from us on a regular basis- specifically sealing thousands of indictments, reports and raw data as being ‘unsafe’ for public knowledge, committing acts in secret on America’s behalf and I’m sure doing things constantly on a global basis that have questionable legality. There are literally hundreds of things that could be listed here. I love America and her values, but I am afraid they don’t exist anymore and there is no reasonable way to get them back under our current situation.

[PriestTheRunner]

Just so you guys know, I’m not posting this to stir up trouble. I am posting all this because Texas Nationalist Movement is pushing hard this year to at least have a floor vote on a referendum bill. Before the misinformation begins, the bill is NOT a vote on Texit. The bill is a vote on putting Texit on the next November ballot (not this November, the 2019 ballot). It would not unilaterally decide for a Texit to happen. It would merely put the vote out there for Texas to decide. If we vote to stay, so be it. That has happened before (see Scotland). If we vote to leave, it’ll be a wild ride but better IMO for all. The text of the proposed bill is as follows:

A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
AN ACT
to make provision for the holding of a referendum on whether Texas
should reassert its status as an independent nation.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
SECTION 1. Title 16 of the Election Cod
--------(1)The Secretary of State must publish a report which contains (alone or
--------with other material)—
-------- --------(a) a statement which details previous efforts by the State of Texas to
----------------initiate reform in the relationship between the State of Texas and the
----------------Federal union as well as efforts to retain or reassert the sovereignty of
----------------the State of Texas, and
---------------- (b) the opinion of the Secretary of State on the success of those efforts.
-------- (2) The report must be published no later than 10 weeks before the
--------scheduled referendum date.
-------- (3) A copy of the report published under this section must be submitted
--------to the Legislature of the State of Texas, the Governor, the Lieutenant
--------Governor, the Texas Congressional delegation, and the President of the
--------United States.
Sec. 279.003 DUTY TO PUBLISH INFORMATION ABOUT TEXAS
MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED STATES
-------- (1)The Secretary of State must publish a report which contains (alone or
--------with other material)—
-------- -------- (a) information about rights and obligations of the State of Texas and its
----------------citizens that arise under Federal law as a result of Texas membership in
----------------the United States, and
-------- -------- (b) examples of countries that are not part of the United States but do
----------------have other arrangements and agreements with the United States
-------- -------- (describing, in the case of each country given as an example, those
----------------arrangements).
-------- (2) The report must be published no later than 10 weeks before the
--------scheduled referendum date.
-------- (3) A copy of the report published under this section must be submitted
--------to the Legislature of the State of Texas, the Governor, the Lieutenant
--------Governor, the Texas Congressional delegation, and the President of the
--------United States.
Sec. 279.004 CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS AND EXPENDITURES FOR
THIS REFERENDUM
-------- (1) For the purposes of this referendum,
----------------1. Campaign expenditures shall only be made from funds contributed
----------------by eligible Texas voters.
----------------2. Only political action committees registered in Texas no later than 6
----------------months after this legislation takes effect shall be allowed to make
----------------campaign expenditures.
----------------3. No campaign expenditure can be made from the campaign account
----------------of any current or former elected official or from any specific purpose
----------------political action committee unrelated to this referendum.
----------------4. All offenses committed under this section and Chapter 253 are
----------------enhanced to State Jail Felonies.
----------------5. Other than these specific provisions, all sections of Chapter 253
----------------apply to campaign contributions and expenditures for this
----------------referendum.
Sec. 279.005 RESULTS OF THE REFERENDUM
-------- (1) The results of the referendum shall be reported first and foremost
--------to the citizens of Texas, to both houses of the United States Congress
--------and to the President of the United States by the Governor of the State of
--------Texas.
-------- (2) Should the vote of the citizens result in a YES decision for Texas
--------independence, the Texas Legislature shall, within twelve calendar
--------months following the referendum, craft an Ordinance for Texas
--------Independence defining and outlining a plan to implement the decision of
--------the referendum, to include an operational plan, to establish Texas as an
--------independent republic.

https://tnm.me/decide

[PriestTheRunner]

Finally, if any of you guys feel compelled to help, I welcome it. PM me and I will add you to my contact list for different things you can do. One of the biggest things you can do is call your state-level representatives and discuss Texit with them. Why you think it is a good idea and that you expect their support if a floor vote comes to fruition. In order to keep from sounding like I’m just peddling a book, I would recommend you check “Texit” out of your local library and give it a read. It is online and in all major bookstores if you prefer to buy, and if anyone on here legitimately can’t afford a copy, I have a few extras that I would be willing to send if you PM me.

You can look up your state reps with this link.
Please know that this may change after the election this November and be sure to contact your new representatives as well. Much of the work of the legislative session actually occurs immediately before the sessions as the reps line up and select the bills they want to chase in our very brief legislative method. As such, contacting now (if you care to do so) is actually more helpful than contacting later.

[PriestTheRunner]

Texas vs White. I know someone is going to bring it up. The issue is the decision itself seems rather terrible to my non-Lawyered eyes. If you have not read it in full, it is here but it is rather disappointing as there seem to be several contradictions within the majority opinion that (to this day) have not been explained.

For example, Chief Justice Chase defined a state as “"State" most frequently expresses the combined idea, just noticed, of people, territory, and government. A State, in the ordinary sense of the Constitution, is a political community of free citizens, occupying a territory of defined boundaries and organised under a government sanctioned and limited by a written constitution, and established by the consent of the governed.” But then turns around and immediately states that Texas never left the Union and never ceased to be a state. If Texas (in succession) was a ‘noticed’ idea of people, territory and government with a constitution and the will of the people, a Seceded Texas checks all those boxes. How then was Texas (in secession) not it’s own “State”? The opinion then goes on to state that Texas “was controlled by a government hostile to the United States”, so the very SCOTUS that admits the existence of another government (which clearly held the territory of Texas) is recognized. If the state of Texas- in order to be a state of the Union needed: (1) people, (2) territory, (3) government and (4) a constitution and 2 of those 4 were absent, how did it exist as a state of the union? The answer is that it did not exist as a state of the union.
All of that is ignoring the fact that at the same time the US congress was enacting bills left and right to ‘Re-Admit States to the Union’. If they never left, then why on earth would the US legislature need to readmit them? There are obvious and blatant contradictions in the law as it was written and this majority opinion, whereas the SCOTUS’ job is to recognize the legislature.

All of this is beside the fact that Texas vs. White has already been overruled. Morgan v. United States, 113 U.S. 476 (1885) overrules the main reason for White, and doesn’t list exceptions. As such, considering the predominate reason for White’s existence is gone, and the weakness behind the remaining part (if any).
There are tons of good readings on why Texas vs. White is invalid, from people much smarter than myself. Here are some:
On Secession: An Analysis of Texas v. White By Cory Genelin
And a good one from Constituting America.

[The Annoyed Man]

I have to ask .... were you inspired by Bobby Akart's novel "Texas Strong"?

[PriestTheRunner]

I have to ask .... were you inspired by Bobby Akart's novel "Texas Strong"?

Nope. But I will add it to the reading queue if you suggest!

[C-dub]

IBTL

[The Annoyed Man]

I have to ask .... were you inspired by Bobby Akart's novel "Texas Strong"?

Nope. But I will add it to the reading queue if you suggest!

It's the first in a 6-novel series, all on that topic .....and other things.....

[Jusme]

PTR,
It it obvious that you have spent a lot of time, and effort to not only research, your information, but to put your conclusions, into a readable form.
While the argument, for secession, is compelling, the fact remains, continuing,to stay a part of the USA, is, and would be, better, for Texas. The transition, from State, to independent, country, requires, a huge investment, in resources, that would quickly deplete, the assumed, surplus, you for see, in your thesis.
Not to mention, the fact, that trade with other countries, icluding, the US, is not a foregone conclusion.
One often overlooked feature, of the secession, or "Texit" is what happens to the numerous, military bases, which bring in untold dollars, in military salaries alone? Also, what incentives would be offered, to corporations, and their employees, to suddenly become " foreign" to the US?

Lastly, while your opinion, is well thought out, and may have validity, to postulate, beforehand, that if the founder, or moderators, decide to delete the thread, is akin, to the actions, of Facebook, or Twitter, to me, is very insulting. This is one of the best places, on the internet, to express opinions, and as long as they don't personally attack someone's, race, religion, or other classification, have been allowed to stay. You are fully entitled to your position, and others are just as entitled to disagree with it, so, and this is just my opinion, don't denigrate the site, or it's moderators, to try to bully them, into accepting it. JMHo