TX: San Antonio Road Rage Incident

[Liberty]

So we have an (admittedly likely biased) eye witness report, that contradicts the story told by one of the shooters in this incident (who would also be biased).

If there's no video, and the two shooters have different stories, and the only non-shooter eye witness corroborates one of their stories, I think I know who I would believe if I was a juror.

Except it's not an either or choice. If it's the only evidence available then neither party should be found guilty because there would be "a reasonable doubt. "

[rotor]

What we do know, the off duty cop had to go to his car to get his weapon. He was shot 6 times (or was it 5?) and responded by hitting the other shooter 2 times and the girl in the car. The off duty cop would not have been hit 6 times if he was the first shooter (in my opinion) and the arrested shooter must have been a very good shot and probably have been the first shooter to get off so many effective hits. All a guess on my part. On the other hand the cop, if he was the first shooter, was a terrible shot. I tend to believe the cop was not the first shooter in this case.

[Misfit Child]

So we have an (admittedly likely biased) eye witness report, that contradicts the story told by one of the shooters in this incident (who would also be biased).

If there's no video, and the two shooters have different stories, and the only non-shooter eye witness corroborates one of their stories, I think I know who I would believe if I was a juror.

Except it's not an either or choice. If it's the only evidence available then neither party should be found guilty because there would be "a reasonable doubt. "

That sounds reasonable but so far only one of the gunslingers was charged, and it's the one who has a supporting witness.

[ElGallo]

This is my theory.

Offduty officer pulled into parking lot and was followed by civilian. I'm assuming he thought this place would have cameras or he was indeed going for some eye candy. Officer decided to talk to civilian and maybe smooth things over, explain how his actions are not appropriate, i.e. deescalate the situation but also prevent civilian from doing this to others in the future.

Officer gets out of vehicle, walks around the front of his car, civilian gets out of his car and immediately shoots at the officer. Maybe he felt threatened and that's why he shot. The officer goes back to his car to retrieve his weapon, civilian is getting into his car, officer shoots the civilian through the passenger side window of his car, hits the civilian (maybe in the back hence why there are reports he might be paralyzed) and graces the civilian's passenger.

I hope there is a follow up to this.

[warnmar10]

This is my theory.

Offduty officer pulled into parking lot and was followed by civilian. I'm assuming he thought this place would have cameras or he was indeed going for some eye candy. Officer decided to talk to civilian and maybe smooth things over, explain how his actions are not appropriate, i.e. deescalate the situation but also prevent civilian from doing this to others in the future.

Officer gets out of vehicle, walks around the front of his car, civilian gets out of his car and immediately shoots at the officer. Maybe he felt threatened and that's why he shot. The officer goes back to his car to retrieve his weapon, civilian is getting into his car, officer shoots the civilian through the passenger side window of his car, hits the civilian (maybe in the back hence why there are reports he might be paralyzed) and graces the civilian's passenger.

I hope there is a follow up to this.

That sounds more like a revenge shoot than a defensive shoot.

[WTR]

[quote=ElGallo post_id=<a href="tel:1205171">1205171</a> time=<a href="tel:1527864863">1527864863</a> user_id=23166]
This is my theory.

Offduty officer pulled into parking lot and was followed by civilian. I'm assuming he thought this place would have cameras or he was indeed going for some eye candy. Officer decided to talk to civilian and maybe smooth things over, explain how his actions are not appropriate, i.e. deescalate the situation but also prevent civilian from doing this to others in the future.

Officer gets out of vehicle, walks around the front of his car, civilian gets out of his car and immediately shoots at the officer. Maybe he felt threatened and that's why he shot. The officer goes back to his car to retrieve his weapon, civilian is getting into his car, officer shoots the civilian through the passenger side window of his car, hits the civilian (maybe in the back hence why there are reports he might be paralyzed) and graces the civilian's passenger.

I hope there is a follow up to this.

That sounds more like a revenge shoot than a defensive shoot.
[/quote]

Sounds like a fantasy. I think I'll wait for more info.

[BBYC]

I wish the chief waited for more information before deciding only one of the shooters should be arrested.

[warnmar10]

I wish the chief waited for more information before deciding only one of the shooters should be arrested.

I wonder if a police department investigating itself is always the best policy.

[SewTexas]

I wish the chief waited for more information before deciding only one of the shooters should be arrested.

I wonder if a police department investigating itself is always the best policy.

I've thought that a lot. There are times I admire McMannus, but his knee jerk "my guys can do no wrong" reaction....doesn't really buy him points with the people. it would be better to say "let's let the investigation take it's course". And let's have the major appoint or hire a civilian team from the community that would conduct such investigations. just my thoughts as a citizen that lives next door.

[warnmar10]

... And let's have the major appoint or hire a civilian team from the community that would conduct such investigations. just my thoughts as a citizen that lives next door.

I'd rather the major stay out of it. The Texas Rangers or some similarly independent authority. 98% of cases would probably end about the same as they would have with an internal investigation but it would instill confidence in the process.

[dlh]

A few things come to mind.

First, the District Attorney could submit the entire matter to the local grand jury and let them decide on the bill or no-bill of the two parties.

Secondly, wonder if it is possible for the police chief to ask for an independent investigation by the the Texas Department of Public Safety and let them report to the District Attorney who could then decide on any action to present to the grand jury.

If the District Attorney feels too conflicted then he or she could always ask the Texas Attorney General's Office to substitute in on the investigation and prosecution of any possibly guilty parties.

Not sure if any of that would work---just some random thoughts.

[SewTexas]

... And let's have the major appoint or hire a civilian team from the community that would conduct such investigations. just my thoughts as a citizen that lives next door.

I'd rather the major stay out of it. The Texas Rangers or some similarly independent authority. 98% of cases would probably end about the same as they would have with an internal investigation but it would instill confidence in the process.

the only problem with the Rangers is that you're still having LEO's investigating LEO's, so I'm not so sure about the confidence that's instilled.
yes, I'd rather the mayor stay out of it too, but you don't want a judge appointing a panel the judicial system shouldn't be involved at that point yet.
I don't know what the answer is....

[warnmar10]

the only problem with the Rangers is that you're still having LEO's investigating LEO's, so I'm not so sure about the confidence that's instilled.
yes, I'd rather the mayor stay out of it too, but you don't want a judge appointing a panel the judicial system shouldn't be involved at that point yet.
I don't know what the answer is....

Yeah I oon't know that the Rangers is the answer but agencies investigating themselves doesn't pass the smell test.

[JustSomeOldGuy]

... And let's have the major appoint or hire a civilian team from the community that would conduct such investigations. just my thoughts as a citizen that lives next door.

I'd rather the major stay out of it. The Texas Rangers or some similarly independent authority. 98% of cases would probably end about the same as they would have with an internal investigation but it would instill confidence in the process.

It would also have a salutary effect in certain departments by instilling the awareness they would NOT be able to control the investigation.

[warnmar10]

It would also have a salutary effect in certain departments by instilling the awareness they would NOT be able to control the investigation.

I believe it is vital if we are to restore and maintain trust in policing.