City ordnance

[roadkill]

With all the latest events concerning city ordnance’s I looked up to see if Corpus Christi had anything related to firearms. I came up with this.

http://corpuschristi.elaws.us/code/coor ... v_sec33-79

(a) A person commits an offense if the person, carrying a firearm, enters or remains on premises of the city.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person was:

(1) A commissioned security officer in the scope of the officer's employment for the city;

(2) A police officer of the city's police department;

(3) A peace officer, other than a city police officer, within the scope of the officer's duties;

(4) In the actual discharge of duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by section 431.001, Government Code;

(5) Carrying the firearm at a gun show or other event involving display or use of firearms in Bayfront Plaza Convention Center or Memorial Coliseum in compliance with section 36-28 of this Code;

(6) Carrying the firearm on the premises of the Corpus Christi International Airport in an approved container, for the purpose of and prepared for shipping, in compliance with federal regulations; or

(7) A licensee if the licensee is in compliance with applicable state laws and rules regulating licensees and the carriage of handguns.

(c) The city manager shall cause notice to be posted on all city premises that entry or remaining thereon while carrying a firearm, whether by a licensee or not, is prohibited. The content, size, print, placement, and other aspects of any sign shall be in the absolute discretion of the city manager or as required by state law.

(d) In this section:

Firearm means a gun, handgun, rifle, shotgun, or any other device designed, made or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using explosive energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use.

Licensee means a person who has a current, valid license to carry a concealed handgun under Chapter 411, Texas Government Code.

Premises means a building or any portion thereof, and parking lots and grounds adjacent thereto, including interior sidewalks, owned, leased, occupied or controlled by the city, including, not by way of limitation: administrative buildings, airports, auditorium, animal control buildings, city hall, coliseum, convention center, fire stations, golf courses, gymnasiums, health department buildings, marinas, multi-cultural center, museums, police buildings, recreational centers, senior centers, service center buildings, solid waste buildings, swimming pools, utility system buildings, and warehouses. Provided, however, "premises" shall not include public streets, sidewalks or parks. Provided, further, facilities such as museums or swimming pools, which may be located on park grounds, are not public parks.

(Ord. No. 22454, § 1, 12-19-1995; Ord. No. 25560, § 1, 11-18-2003)

I’m not up to snuff on long gun carry legalities as I don’t carry a long gun openly with exception to hunting. Is this ordnance on the level or another overreach by a city?

[mr surveyor]

looks like (7) is what it's all about


jd

[imkopaka]

I was actually looking at (c).

(c) The city manager shall cause notice to be posted on all city premises that entry or remaining thereon while carrying a firearm, whether by a licensee or not, is prohibited.

This sounds an awful lot like unlawful exclusion of a license holder. "All city premises" means "administrative buildings, airports, auditorium, animal control buildings, city hall, coliseum, convention center, fire stations, golf courses, gymnasiums, health department buildings, marinas, multi-cultural center, museums, police buildings, recreational centers, senior centers, service center buildings, solid waste buildings, swimming pools, utility system buildings, and warehouses." They have no authority to deem the red areas off-limits to licensees, and only possible authority or partial authority to deem the yellow areas off-limits to licensees.

[mojo84]

With all the latest events concerning city ordnance’s I looked up to see if Corpus Christi had anything related to firearms. I came up with this.

http://corpuschristi.elaws.us/code/coor ... v_sec33-79

(a) A person commits an offense if the person, carrying a firearm, enters or remains on premises of the city.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person was:

(1) A commissioned security officer in the scope of the officer's employment for the city;

(2) A police officer of the city's police department;

(3) A peace officer, other than a city police officer, within the scope of the officer's duties;

(4) In the actual discharge of duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by section 431.001, Government Code;

(5) Carrying the firearm at a gun show or other event involving display or use of firearms in Bayfront Plaza Convention Center or Memorial Coliseum in compliance with section 36-28 of this Code;

(6) Carrying the firearm on the premises of the Corpus Christi International Airport in an approved container, for the purpose of and prepared for shipping, in compliance with federal regulations; or

(7) A licensee if the licensee is in compliance with applicable state laws and rules regulating licensees and the carriage of handguns.

(c) The city manager shall cause notice to be posted on all city premises that entry or remaining thereon while carrying a firearm, whether by a licensee or not, is prohibited. The content, size, print, placement, and other aspects of any sign shall be in the absolute discretion of the city manager or as required by state law.

(d) In this section:

Firearm means a gun, handgun, rifle, shotgun, or any other device designed, made or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using explosive energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use.

Licensee means a person who has a current, valid license to carry a concealed handgun under Chapter 411, Texas Government Code.

Premises means a building or any portion thereof, and parking lots and grounds adjacent thereto, including interior sidewalks, owned, leased, occupied or controlled by the city, including, not by way of limitation: administrative buildings, airports, auditorium, animal control buildings, city hall, coliseum, convention center, fire stations, golf courses, gymnasiums, health department buildings, marinas, multi-cultural center, museums, police buildings, recreational centers, senior centers, service center buildings, solid waste buildings, swimming pools, utility system buildings, and warehouses. Provided, however, "premises" shall not include public streets, sidewalks or parks. Provided, further, facilities such as museums or swimming pools, which may be located on park grounds, are not public parks.

(Ord. No. 22454, § 1, 12-19-1995; Ord. No. 25560, § 1, 11-18-2003)

I’m not up to snuff on long gun carry legalities as I don’t carry a long gun openly with exception to hunting. Is this ordnance on the level or another overreach by a city?

The bolded sections seem to conflict with one another. However, I am not the best at reading laws and ordinances.

[rotor]

looks like (7) is what it's all about


jd

You don't need a license to carry a long gun. This would appear to ban long guns. Here comes C.J. again.

[Maxwell]

I was actually looking at (c).

(c) The city manager shall cause notice to be posted on all city premises that entry or remaining thereon while carrying a firearm, whether by a licensee or not, is prohibited.

This sounds an awful lot like unlawful exclusion of a license holder. "All city premises" means "administrative buildings, airports, auditorium, animal control buildings, city hall, coliseum, convention center, fire stations, golf courses, gymnasiums, health department buildings, marinas, multi-cultural center, museums, police buildings, recreational centers, senior centers, service center buildings, solid waste buildings, swimming pools, utility system buildings, and warehouses." They have no authority to deem the red areas off-limits to licensees, and only possible authority or partial authority to deem the yellow areas off-limits to licensees.

This is one for the lawyers (one of which I am not) but I agree. By my understanding the city cannot lawfully exclude LTC from these places.

[SewTexas]

I typically have some difficulty reading these things, but I can usually figure them out....this one seems overly, I don't know, messy?

7. sort of seems like it's saying: "LTCs, follow the law." maybe?

c. looks like it's saying: "it's the City Manager's job to post the signs, if you have a complaint, call him."

[Soccerdad1995]

I typically have some difficulty reading these things, but I can usually figure them out....this one seems overly, I don't know, messy?

7. sort of seems like it's saying: "LTCs, follow the law." maybe?

c. looks like it's saying: "it's the City Manager's job to post the signs, if you have a complaint, call him."

They may not actually conflict with one another, but it's still a problem.

7 is saying that LTC's are exempt from the ordinance regarding firearms. C is saying that the City Manager is supposed to post signage saying firearms aren't allowed. These do not necessarily conflict, but C is instructing the City Manager to violate state law, which is a problem. Until the City Manager actually posts signs, then I don't think a violation has occurred, however.

Also, as mentioned up-thread, this ordinance conflicts with state law regarding the unlicensed carry of long guns.

[mojo84]

I typically have some difficulty reading these things, but I can usually figure them out....this one seems overly, I don't know, messy?

7. sort of seems like it's saying: "LTCs, follow the law." maybe?

c. looks like it's saying: "it's the City Manager's job to post the signs, if you have a complaint, call him."

They may not actually conflict with one another, but it's still a problem.

7 is saying that LTC's are exempt from the ordinance regarding firearms. C is saying that the City Manager is supposed to post signage saying firearms aren't allowed. These do not necessarily conflict, but C is instructing the City Manager to violate state law, which is a problem. Until the City Manager actually posts signs, then I don't think a violation has occurred, however.

Also, as mentioned up-thread, this ordinance conflicts with state law regarding the unlicensed carry of long guns.

I might agree if (c) didn't say "whether by a licensee or not, is prohibited".

[imkopaka]

I typically have some difficulty reading these things, but I can usually figure them out....this one seems overly, I don't know, messy?

7. sort of seems like it's saying: "LTCs, follow the law." maybe?

c. looks like it's saying: "it's the City Manager's job to post the signs, if you have a complaint, call him."

They may not actually conflict with one another, but it's still a problem.

7 is saying that LTC's are exempt from the ordinance regarding firearms. C is saying that the City Manager is supposed to post signage saying firearms aren't allowed. These do not necessarily conflict, but C is instructing the City Manager to violate state law, which is a problem. Until the City Manager actually posts signs, then I don't think a violation has occurred, however.

Also, as mentioned up-thread, this ordinance conflicts with state law regarding the unlicensed carry of long guns.

I might agree if (c) didn't say "whether by a licensee or not, is prohibited".

There's the rub.

[Soccerdad1995]

I typically have some difficulty reading these things, but I can usually figure them out....this one seems overly, I don't know, messy?

7. sort of seems like it's saying: "LTCs, follow the law." maybe?

c. looks like it's saying: "it's the City Manager's job to post the signs, if you have a complaint, call him."

They may not actually conflict with one another, but it's still a problem.

7 is saying that LTC's are exempt from the ordinance regarding firearms. C is saying that the City Manager is supposed to post signage saying firearms aren't allowed. These do not necessarily conflict, but C is instructing the City Manager to violate state law, which is a problem. Until the City Manager actually posts signs, then I don't think a violation has occurred, however.

Also, as mentioned up-thread, this ordinance conflicts with state law regarding the unlicensed carry of long guns.

I might agree if (c) didn't say "whether by a licensee or not, is prohibited".

There's the rub.

Understood. And it may just be semantics, but I am not reading (c) to be a statement of law / ordinance. Rather, I read (c) to require the posting of signs, and the signs that the ordinance requires erroneously state that carry by a license holder is not allowed. Regardless, the very order in (c) is directing the City Manager to do something that is illegal (violation of the fines for signs law), so I think the city has bigger issues on it's hands here.

[roadkill]

But c ends with “as required by state law” which could be read as they will not be posted. I should add I have not seen any signs on city property prohibiting licensed carry. Not that they may not be out there but I haven’t seen any. I just thought it odd that this ordnance might be running afoul of the law in regards to long gun carry. So my hunch is right and this ordnance is illegal? Any particular state code that says so? I requested a copy of these ordnance’s from the city. Want to be sure they are still in effect and not something a third party website has wrong. If they are still on the books I’ll write a letter to the city manager and attorney advising them of the conflict.

[G.A. Heath]

Texas Local Government Code 229.001 and the state constitution which reserves the authority to regulate the wearing of arms for the state legislature.

[SewTexas]

7 and C both basically say "do what the law says"

[puma guy]

CJ may bring some ordnance to challenge that City Ordnance!