Abraham wrote:Let me add and ask: If you are stopped and found to be over the limit, (DWI) with your hand gun found in the vehicle - might your LTC be lost?
Keith?
Yes, intoxicated with a gun will cost you a ton of money and your license. Hopefully they are smart enough to not drink to that level and try to drive, much less be in the vehicle with a gun.
This made me think of a question:
Let's say I'm going out to a bar with my wife and some friends. We're going to dinner and stuff first, so I am carrying then. When we go to the bar, I disarm and leave my gun in the car. My wife doesn't drink, so she drives home. I leave my gun locked in the glovebox or trunk until we get home. Have I done anything illegal in this scenario?
I would think that you are not breaking anything. You carried legally and disarmed when going into a 51% establishment by locking it in the glove box. Your wife is the DD and thus has control over the vehicle and the weapon should be covered by the MPA. I would also have your wife take the weapon in as she is sober. As long as you don't re-arm yourself in the car or get the weapon while intoxicated, I believe you would be fine.
Abraham wrote:Let me add and ask: If you are stopped and found to be over the limit, (DWI) with your hand gun found in the vehicle - might your LTC be lost?
Keith?
Yes, intoxicated with a gun will cost you a ton of money and your license. Hopefully they are smart enough to not drink to that level and try to drive, much less be in the vehicle with a gun.
This made me think of a question:
Let's say I'm going out to a bar with my wife and some friends. We're going to dinner and stuff first, so I am carrying then. When we go to the bar, I disarm and leave my gun in the car. My wife doesn't drink, so she drives home. I leave my gun locked in the glovebox or trunk until we get home. Have I done anything illegal in this scenario?
The key here is who is in control of the firearm. If you are intoxicated, you legally can't be in possession. However, as long as your wife can legally posses the firearm, then she is covered under MPA, even if she doesn't have an LTC. So, make sure it's accessible to her and not you, and you would be legal.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
What would an honest peace officer arrest for? 46.035 clearly says "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
But if you were charged with 46.035 for carrying in 51% location, the definition of premises would be that in 46.035, not the TABC definition. Therefore, the parking lot would not be off limits. There are hundreds of 51% booths at the state fair and the drinks can be taken throughout fair park as the “TABC licensed premises” but the Fair is not off limits.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
But if you were charged with 46.035 for carrying in 51% location, the definition of premises would be that in 46.035, not the TABC definition. Therefore, the parking lot would not be off limits. There are hundreds of 51% booths at the state fair and the drinks can be taken throughout fair park as the “TABC licensed premises” but the Fair is not off limits.
The problem is there is no case law, and per this post by Steve R, there may be a difference on ruling depending on what court it ended up in. So, this is definitely one of those where you might beat the rap but still take the ride
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
But if you were charged with 46.035 for carrying in 51% location, the definition of premises would be that in 46.035, not the TABC definition. Therefore, the parking lot would not be off limits. There are hundreds of 51% booths at the state fair and the drinks can be taken throughout fair park as the “TABC licensed premises” but the Fair is not off limits.
The problem is there is no case law, and per this post by Steve R, there may be a difference on ruling depending on what court it ended up in. So, this is definitely one of those where you might beat the rap but still take the ride
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
What would an honest peace officer arrest for? 46.035 clearly says "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
The law is quite clear. The parking lot doesn’t meet the definition of the offense charged regardless of the TABC license considerations.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
What would an honest peace officer arrest for? 46.035 clearly says "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
The law is quite clear. The parking lot doesn’t meet the definition of the offense charged regardless of the TABC license considerations.
I agree, but the TABC officer may not look at the definition when making the arrest, even though it's not valid. Just saying they really need to make sure they change this and make it match TPC.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
What would an honest peace officer arrest for? 46.035 clearly says "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
The law is quite clear. The parking lot doesn’t meet the definition of the offense charged regardless of the TABC license considerations.
so that makes you wonder if they could arrest people for drinking in a parking lot...? I guess only if they're drunk, eh?
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
What would an honest peace officer arrest for? 46.035 clearly says "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
The law is quite clear. The parking lot doesn’t meet the definition of the offense charged regardless of the TABC license considerations.
so that makes you wonder if they could arrest people for drinking in a parking lot...? I guess only if they're drunk, eh?
Not if it's a private lot and licensed for on-premise consumption. If a public lot, they can still be arrested for public intoxication, even if the license covers the location.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
What would an honest peace officer arrest for? 46.035 clearly says "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
The law is quite clear. The parking lot doesn’t meet the definition of the offense charged regardless of the TABC license considerations.
I agree, but the TABC officer may not look at the definition when making the arrest, even though it's not valid. Just saying they really need to make sure they change this and make it match TPC.
The law is clear. If we're worried about officers who don't know (or don't care) what the law says, we should be worried about carrying a handgun at all, because those officers might not know (or not care) about CHL/LTC either.
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
ninjabread wrote:The law is clear. If we're worried about officers who don't know (or don't care) what the law says, we should be worried about carrying a handgun at all, because those officers might not know (or not care) about CHL/LTC either.
BBYC wrote:“Premises” means a building or a portion of a building
Not by TABC terms. The 'licensed premises' is defined as the area where they can serve alcohol for on-premise consumption. It may normally not include the parking lot, but they also may get a temporary license to cover sale and consumption in the parking lot and then it would be off-limits. Best bet on these, if it's a bar and beside the business in their private parking area, and they are predominately selling alcohol, then it will be 99% a no-go.
What would an honest peace officer arrest for? 46.035 clearly says "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
The law is quite clear. The parking lot doesn’t meet the definition of the offense charged regardless of the TABC license considerations.
I agree, but the TABC officer may not look at the definition when making the arrest, even though it's not valid. Just saying they really need to make sure they change this and make it match TPC.
The law is clear. If we're worried about officers who don't know (or don't care) what the law says, we should be worried about carrying a handgun at all, because those officers might not know (or not care) about CHL/LTC either.
There are enough legal restrictions on our rights already. If we add the further standard of not doing anything that someone might think is illegal, then we are unnecessarily self-restricting ourselves far too much, IMHO.
