Unsolicited 30.06 Signs

[chasfm11]

We went to a church for 13 years but last year, we decided that the direction of that leadership wasn't for us and switched. I still have a lot of friends there, many of who have LTCs and I'm still on email distributions from the church. This situation is a combination of what I've personally seen in the emails and what I've heard from one of my friends at the church who just got his LTC.

Two weeks ago, a woman showed up at the church office with "free" 30.06 signs and wanted to encourage the church to put them up. Since this came to me 2nd hand, I was not able to get the name of the group that she was representing. This was before the South Texas church shooting and she reportedly represented that putting up the signs would be the church and the local businesses that she was also visiting "safer". The pastor spoke with her and kindly told her that she didn't need to leave any of her signs and that the church would discuss the matter. Although he is new, I suspect that he understood the lengthy process that the church has gone through because of its nursery school program and open carry. There are no signs there today.

Fast forward to yesterday when one of other pastors sent out an email about church safety. He is starting a discussion among several LEOs and the known LTCs in congregration about safety/security. Interestingly, the LEOs have asked for a list of the LTC holders as part of that discussion. I think that one of my LTC friends there is compiling the list. It will be interesting to see where that goes. I knew of 12 LTCs while I was there and my friend, the new LTC holder (who is also on the church's board) was not one of them.

My reason for tying these together is that this situation could have gone the other way. There is a strong Liberal presence in the congregation who, now the email has gone out about including LTCs in the discussion, may mount pushback on the idea of even allowing concealed carry. They don't permit open carry. If it had been the office manager at the church received the sign lady's inquiry, they could be in the middle of a heated situation about putting those signs up. She is unabashed in her opposition to citizen carry.

My interests for starting the discussion:

1. Have others had situations where 30.06 are being "cold called" on churches and businesses recently? I thought most of that died down after the initial hand wringing over OC waned.
2. I noticed some other churches rethinking 30.06 signs after the South Texas church shooting. I'm wondering how much receptivity the sign lady and her colleagues might get a churches now. My new church isn't posted and there is no hallway discussion that I know about regarding church safety like there is at my old church.
3. I'm watching the businesses around that church (I live nearby and obviously have a personal interest) to see if there are any new signs as a result of the sign lady's solicitation. I haven't seen any yet and would expect that if it were going to happen as a result of her visit, it would have already. Since the everything seems to be more polarized that it was, I was curious to see if there was any significant number of new signs concentrated in an area. I keep an eye on Texas3006 but it is hard to detect a specific area being targeted on a day to day basis.

[NotRPB]

Your post brought 2 things to mind:
1) The denomination I belong to would laugh at any attempt to restrict carrying. More Pastors and their wives are getting licensed now and deacons who are licensed but rarely carried, confirmed to me they'll be armed now.

2) A church of another denomination I visit once a week had a very polite sign (which was removed after the church massacre) saying "Please don't open carry, If you do, we'll hand you a compliant 30.07 card." ---- I noticed this sign was taken down last week, after the Sutherland Springs massacre. They never had a 30.06 sign.

[Flightmare]

I like these signs in church better than 30.x signs

[Pritchical]

(Image)
I like these signs in church better than 30.x signs

Yes, that is beautiful. Like a fine painting.

[troglodyte]

What also bothers me is they are making a list of LTCs.

[mojo84]

Unfortunately, the cold-caller passing out signs may have opened a can of worms for your church. I bet that is part of her objective when she falls short of her goal of getting the signs posted immediately.

I know when our church was discussing the new open carry law the topic of active shooter response came up so the Pastors consulted with our police chief. As usual, he was not in favor of non-trained citizens carrying guns and responding in any way to an active shooter other than to take cover and/or try to exit the building or area and let trained law enforcement handle the situation. We have one officer on campus during Sunday morning worship services and he is "protecting" several buildings and several hundred people. Unfortunately, the pastors took the chief's word since he is the expert and conveyed to the attenders we should only take cover and/or exit the building without attempting to fight back or engage the shooter. They also installed extremely unsightly 30.07 signs at all public entrances.

It's a shame outside people can have so much influence on what a church or organization does and the decisions they make. OP, hope this all works out for you and your church.

[RPBrown]

I answer to your question, shortly after OC was enacted, I had someone come to my office trying to give us both .06 and .07 signs. They were escorted off of the property with the utmost of professionalism

[bblhd672]

Interestingly, the LEOs have asked for a list of the LTC holders as part of that discussion.

Isn't the identity of LTC holders considered confidential? Why would the church have a list of LTC holders for the LEO's to ask for?

[chasfm11]

Interestingly, the LEOs have asked for a list of the LTC holders as part of that discussion.

Isn't the identity of LTC holders considered confidential? Why would the church have a list of LTC holders for the LEO's to ask for?

I agree with you but it is no longer my church and I don't want to dive deeper into its affairs than I already have. I was on the board and if I still had that roll, I would have pushed back on the LTC requirement. I can see the situation where someone attempts something at the church and the LEOs would like to know where help might be coming from. I would prefer to the opposite - the LEOs identify themselves to the LTC holders. If I knew a cop was in the service when something bad was going down, I'd prefer to assist them when they asked for it rather than jump in feet first myself. I guess a lot depends on who is where when things start to go south.

[chasfm11]

Unfortunately, the cold-caller passing out signs may have opened a can of worms for your church. I bet that is part of her objective when she falls short of her goal of getting the signs posted immediately.

I know when our church was discussing the new open carry law the topic of active shooter response came up so the Pastors consulted with our police chief. As usual, he was not in favor of non-trained citizens carrying guns and responding in any way to an active shooter other than to take cover and/or try to exit the building or area and let trained law enforcement handle the situation. We have one officer on campus during Sunday morning worship services and he is "protecting" several buildings and several hundred people. Unfortunately, the pastors took the chief's word since he is the expert and conveyed to the attenders we should only take cover and/or exit the building without attempting to fight back or engage the shooter. They also installed extremely unsightly 30.07 signs at all public entrances.

It's a shame outside people can have so much influence on what a church or organization does and the decisions they make. OP, hope this all works out for you and your church.

When I was on the board of the old church, I managed to get them to agree to prohibit OC (their intent, not mine) by first observing someone who is OC and then presenting them with a card with the 30.07 language on it. They would have needed 9 - 30.07 signs and it would have been ugly like you say. It also breaks the ice for signs. Once the 30.07 signs go it, it can be a very short path to adding 30.06 signs, too. Again, this is my old church and not my current one. I'm pretty much a disinterested observer to what happens. My ears always perk up when there might be new signs going up around where I live which is why I posted this thread. The old church holds musical events from time to time where I like to attend and would hope to continue to do that without facing a disarming situation.